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Final cut X A Diamond in the rough
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[Andrew Kimery] “Adobe looks to be someplace in between Apple and Avid in terms of dependence on the creative sphere for revenue.”
I think this is what I was saying.
[Andrew Kimery] “AFAIK Adobe is split into three main silos; Creative Cloud, Marketing Cloud and Document Cloud.”
I met with 2 Adobe reps today, one of whom I met with in San Diego at the Max conference. We had an interesting conversation around how the CC has gotten so huge, it’s hard to show value of every piece to a potential client (they want to sell a site license to our university). I talked to them about the challenge of selling the the cloud package to schools as different as the School of the Arts and the Nursing School, for example. Perhaps Adobe should break the cloud up into “cloud-lets”: Adobe Social Cloud, Adobe Motion Cloud, Adobe Image Cloud, etc.
[Andrew Kimery] “FCP’s “In Action” page is populated with movies,”
Perhaps, but I see more problem solving on Apple’s In Action page than Avid’s marketing (but I am biased towards this as a one man shop). Problem: I don’t like cluttered interfaces. Solution: The first thing I noticed was how clean the interface is in FCPX 10.3. Oh, and I cut Audi branded content on it too.
Whereas Avid seems to be “when the **insert big name director here** came to cut their new film ‘Martian 2: On to Venus’, they of course chose Media Composer, because all the great films are cut on Media Composer… 90% of all the Academy Award films are cut on Media Composer”. Yeah, so how does that help me here in Sheboygan? I want an uncluttered interface. “Did we mention 90% of all the Academy Award films are cut on Media Composer?”. Doesn’t solve my problem.
But I can see your point. And I am being sarcastic. I still have a few shares of Avid stock…
[Andrew Kimery] “I’m sure they wouldn’t just start listing off names of movies and TV shows that used their NLE.”
I was agreeing with Shane here on the point that many editors might choose a system because some big film was cut on it. Wrong way to do things.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Scott Witthaus] “Whereas Avid seems to be “when the **insert big name director here** came to cut their new film ‘Martian 2: On to Venus’, they of course chose Media Composer, because all the great films are cut on Media Composer… 90% of all the Academy Award films are cut on Media Composer””
This is a bit of a misnomer. Directors usually don’t dictate NLEs. They pick the editor they want and the editor uses the NLE of their choice. However, often that choice is mandated by the studios, because they want an insurance policy. That’s where Avid comes in. Aside from reliability, most film editors know it. Editors do sometimes get fired off of films. If you have the film set up on Avid, then it’s less of a hassle to bring in another editor. Neither FCPX or Premiere Pro are anywhere near that point.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] ” Directors usually don’t dictate NLEs. “
It’s advertising! Bend the truth a bit. A director picking your product is much more sexy than some production company. 😉
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Scott Witthaus] “A director picking your product is much more sexy than some production company.”
In reality, most of the time that a director dictates the NLE to use is when the director also does some of the cutting. That was the case in “Focus” and “WTF” (FCPX), but it’s also been the case with James Cameron (Avid), the Coens (FCP7 & Premiere), etc. Or when the director feels like the NLE brings some special integration to the table – David Fincher or the “Deadpool” crew (Premiere). Or when the director owns the hardware and has a fixed investment – e.g. Morgan Spurlock, Clint Eastwood, etc (Avid).
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Scott Witthaus] “I think this is what I was saying. “
Just expanding on the thought you started.
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[Oliver Peters] “FCPX gains interest because of the liberal App Store policy and because it is the anti-subscription NLE.”
You forgot to add that some folks see it as the best NLE for their workflow on the market today. 😉
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
Shane, it’s been too many years. You have the film part mixed up a bit. FilmLogic wasn’t developed by Digital Film Tree. It was around before FCP 1 and you could use it to cut film in Premiere and Media 100 but you just wouldn’t want too. There was nothing in Cold Mountain workflow other editors hadn’t been doing already. The big thing Apple actually developed for the film workflow was proper handling of 24@25 TC which is kinda ironic because it made life of European film editors much easier than American ones.
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“If you have the film set up on Avid, then it’s less of a hassle to bring in another editor”
this is the big unspoken reason FCP was used on certain productions.
it gave the filmmakers a protective barrier from studio interference and allowed them to be a bit more independent.
granted those filmmakers were and are more likely to have final cut on their own films, but i think FCP (or PP or FCPX) give them a little more security.nick
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[Andrew Kimery] “For example, during my first stint in Los Angeles in 2001 a lot of indies, docs, music videos, etc., (pretty much anything that was “budget challenged”) was being done on FCP primarily because of cost reasons.”
But that was nearly 2 years after it was launched, Andrew.
Some of us had cut literally hundreds of projects on Legacy by that time.
That’s pretty much on point.
By the time Legacy worked it’s way FULLY into professional edit suites as a “safe bet” – it was a couple of years after THAT. It flew for a LONG time under the radar during it’s development phase going through at least 3 major iterations of the code base while the “big time” editors were generally dismissive of it as an “amateurs platform.”
Around 3.0 people started taking it seriously. And it was a year or so after THAT that Legacy really making serious noise.
Probably why it all the X hue and cry has always sounded a bit familiar to me. ; )
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “But that was nearly 2 years after it was launched, Andrew.
Some of us had cut literally hundreds of projects on Legacy by that time.”
While you were cutting your stuff on FCP in AZ, other people were cutting docs using FCP in NYC, music videos on FCP in Chicago and TV shows on FCP in LA. The first cable show to use FCP aired in 2000 (“WOW!” aka Women of Wrestling) and Apple won Engineering Emmy’s for FireWire (2001) and FCP (2002) so it’s not like these things weren’t being used by people in major markets to cut movies, TV shows, movie trailers, etc.,.. They just started out being used on smaller projects before working their way up the food chain to bigger budget/higher profile projects.
Which brings me back to the crux of your previous post:
[Bill Davis] “Without the market of NON-Filmmaking – FCP Legacy would not have developed into a tool that filmmakers FINALLY got to access for THEIR needs. “I disagree. The lower-budget TV and filmmaking community using FCP is what led to the higher budget TV and filmmaking community using FCP. For example, Apple didn’t buy FilmLogic in 2001 because corporate guys were switching from 3/4″ and Avid to MiniDV and FCP. FCP’s $999 price tag made it attractive to anyone on a small budget and having a small budget isn’t exclusive to the non-filmmaking community.
[Bill Davis] “Probably why it all the X hue and cry has always sounded a bit familiar to me. ; )”
Which is a reason I’ve always wondered why you railed against such a predictable, and oft repeated cycle, so vehemently.
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