Filmlike gamma modes vs Film Rec

[John Sharaf]

I’d love to put an HVX900 next to one of my Varicams and run some tests to determine the answers to just such a question. Anyone in LA have one and want to come over sometime?

JS

[Paul Cronley]

I can only assume by the non-answer here that the ‘experts’ do not have any comments about his….(or maybe everyone is on vacation.)

Jeff…any comments?????

[Peter Steinman]

Well I think the simple answer is Film rec was originally designed as a mode for getting getting good results when doing film outs from the video. Film like is for making video look like film but, staying on video.

Where it gets confused is that a lot of people really like the film rec mode for staying on video. It provides a nice look without a lot of messing around. The film rec mode has never been completely explained to me. It seems to a combination of color correction and knee. Probably even more to it then that. I think its a bit of a Panasonic trade secret deal but, maybe I just missed the memo. Someone here may know the whole answer. Film rec also has a dynamic level setting which provide some extra adjustment.

The HDX has 3 Film Like modes. I’ve played with them a little and none gives you the film rec ‘look’ and I don’t think they are supposed to. They are meant for giving video more ‘film like characteristics’. The film like modes are fixed and have no adjustments. If they are all that much film like will be debated I think. They are interesting but, it will take some tweaking to get good results out of them.

There are people a whole lot more expert on these things then I. Hopefully they will give you a better answer.

[John Sharaf]

Jeff,

I can only assume the new camera has fewer and less agressive Cine Gamma cirves; luckily I did get a favorable reply from a soon to be HDV900 owner and I think we’ll hook up this weekend and make some comparative tests! Results to follw.

JS

[Kenny Kato]

FILM REC is for transferring to FILM. Monitor u use in field is pretty much useless without Gamma corrector, color and exoposure will not be accurate without it.
What u see is NOT what u’ll get.

FILM LIKE is similar to VIDEO REC in Varicam.
Image is as same as after Telecine process, what u see in normal HD monitor IS WHAT U GET.

[Bruce Greene]

FILM REC is for transferring to FILM. Monitor u use in field is pretty much useless without Gamma corrector, color and exposure will not be accurate without it.
What u see is NOT what u’ll get.

FILM LIKE is similar to VIDEO REC in Varicam.
Image is as same as after Telecine process, what u see in normal HD monitor IS WHAT U GET.

This is the way panasonic often explains it, and Film Rec can be used this way with a gamma corrected monitor.

Vid Rec is more like a standard video camera with a knee circuit.

That said, I believe the best quality images can be made with the camera in Film Rec mode with the gamma, ped, and dynamic level adjusted for a WYSIWYG result on the monitor without monitor gamma correction. The noise level of the camera is substantially less in Film Rec shot this way than images shot in Vid Rec. It should be noted that Vid Rec has an EI of about 640 while Film Rec shot for WYSIWYG can have an EI of as low as 200. In Film Rec though much more gain can be added without noticeable noise as well.

[Tony]

The two modes are not similar and are meant for different applications.

The new filmlike gamma #3 does offer more highlight reproduction than number one and two.

If you require film rec than the Varicam is the camera to use if not then the HDX-900 may be suitable.

One major item I noticed is how clean the HDX-900 is in the dark areas compared to a Varicam “F” version which I found some quite noisy.

In any case the end user must first consider the post production workflow for either camera to decide what will work best for them both in the field and in post.

Tony Salgado

[Mark Cc knobil]

Isn’t the post workflow pretty much the same?

Mark Knobil
Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh!

[Tony]

Not if you consider the need for color correction when using film rec.

The film like modes in the HDX are “What you see is what you ge” and are designed for use in television productions where no additional color correction post work may be done. Althought this is not to say that additional color correction would not improve the imagery even more.

Two different modes for two different applications and purposes.

Again I say decide which is best for your needs and applications by conducting test shoots along with a detailed post production workflow to understand the implications, advantages, and/or disadvantages are of either.

Tony Salgado

[Robin Probyn]

Hi Tony

So in the case of not being able to do tests,or extensive colour correction,you wouldnt advise film rec with the varicam for a tv project.And what you see on the monitor is not what you are getting?

I know you will say have an engineer,and a vector scope, and do tests 🙂 and ofcourse you are right,but maybe like some other people here I never have this luxury.I was also under the impression that film rec was just a nicer looking alternative to video rec.

At the risk of you taking a literal blow torch to my nether regions…..your thoughts?

Thanks