Film edit question

[Shane Ross]

I’m curious, what is this want/need/desire to sync the sound AFTER the cut? What’s wrong with doing it before you cut…in the prep of the cut? Because it takes too long? people like the one-button solutions of software to magically sync things ala PluralEyes, but after they are done?

I know that Intelligent Assistance has SYNC-N-LINK-X for FCX…that does this automatically. So that’s one tick in the corner for FCX:

https://assistedediting.intelligentassistance.com/Sync-N-Link-X/

As an editor, I want it done BEFORE I edit. Sound is EXTREMELY important, and good sound will sell a project, and bad sound can sink it. So I’d want the best sound possible for the edit, not a scratch track.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Cameron Clendaniel]

Completely agree – sync before cutting. I have trouble truly evaluating an edit without the “real” sound in there. Plus in many cases you’ll have fewer clips to sync before they’re all cut up, especially if you’re cutting syllables here and there. After syncing I usually create merged clips so that I can match frame. Be careful with creating multiclips from merged clips though. With just 2 cameras I prefer not to have multiclips anyway.

Regarding NLEs, PrP CC now has an option for syncing using “audio” which then analyzes the waveforms (assuming your cameras have reference audio of course).

Cameron Clendaniel
Film Editor, NYC
718-254-8027
cam@camclendaniel.com
http://www.camclendaniel.com

[Oliver Peters]

[Shane Ross] ” What’s wrong with doing it before you cut…in the prep of the cut?”

I understand what you are saying, but the issue is one of performance. Jeremy has already complained about X’s performance with a lot of synchronized clips. I’m not sure about Premiere Pro CC. This will most likely have polywavs with 8-10 tracks per file. I’m not keen on dealing with this throughout the entire film edit.

In Media Composer, you can Autosync with only 1 track of the wav. Then in ProTools they can add the other tracks. That’s a much better working arrangement for the editor.

Regarding Sync-N-Link-X. I have been in touch with Philip. You have to sync first. Only the FCP 7 version does a post sync. And then only with FCP 7, not Premiere Pro. Plural Eyes won’t work if there’s no reference audio. Remember slates? 😉 Odds are the B and C cameras will be untethered, so will need to be synced by clapstick or TC (if we are lucky).

In the old days of DATs and tapes, I was able to batch capture digital DAT files into Media Composer via AES and soundroll TC after the fact. I’d have a MUCH cleaner audio ready for OMF than what I got from the film transfer house. Saved the Pro Tools guys a lot of hassle.

Oh wait! It’s much better these days with files 😉

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Oliver Peters]

[Cameron Clendaniel] “. I have trouble truly evaluating an edit without the “real” sound in there”

FWIW – this project has an A-list location mixer and not that many ensemble scenes. I trust that the mixed “guide” track will be more than adequate to cut by. Odds are if the files have 10 channels, these will be more empty than full. I agree with your concern, but I doubt it will be an issue here. The polywavs are available in the edit, so it’s certainly easy enough to check iso tracks to verify clean mics or dig out lines if need be. Never had any problems with these sort of things.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Cameron Clendaniel]

Don’t know about X but haven’t had performance issues in PrP with synced or merged clips. Perhaps run a little workflow test and see which is less painful. I get not wanting to cut with 8-10 tracks. But you could sync them all, then eliminate those you don’t want as you work through the edit and then, once you’ve got picture lock, use match frame to drop back in the tracks you eliminated before sending to sound post. It just makes me uncomfortable cutting before syncing, but maybe that’s just me.

Cameron Clendaniel
Film Editor, NYC
718-254-8027
cam@camclendaniel.com
http://www.camclendaniel.com

[Walter Soyka]

[Oliver Peters] “I’m curious if there’s a way to sync or relink the broadcast wave files after picture lock.”

Even if syncing is straightforward (PluralEyes making media files from a project-managed collection of media maybe?), I think that the relinking will be tricky. You’re not just reconnecting files; you’re also significantly changing your audio track layout due to the different number and configuration of tracks.

I really like reLink reTooled [link] as a conform tool, but I don’t think it will conform separate audio like you’d need. Maybe you could check in with Josh and see if he’d be interested in supporting this workflow?

Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events

[Oliver Peters]

Thanks for the input. One impediment I see to going PProCC is the Cloud pricing. I have to see how the college handles that. To add 4 systems means $1440 annually, which must be kept up year-to-year. Granted they get all the Adobe software, but they don’t really want or need it in this department. That tends to make ownership of individual software more attractive, but it really comes down to decisions at a higher level.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com