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Fields found in 24P
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the keying problem may or may not be a big issue, depending on the footage. generally, the more movement, the bigger (or more noticeble) the problem. also if the camera is moving (versus the subject within the frame) you will often have see more problems.
you’re going to have problems editing incorrectly interpretted 24p, and also outputting. example: are you going to edit in a 24p timeline, or a 30i? your footage isn’t either one. so when you go to render to video (30i), then how ar you going to interpret your misinterpretted footage? i think you’ll encounter problems here too, how noticeable the problems are will be based on your particular footage.
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[moldyboot] “then how ar you going to interpret your misinterpretted footage?”
I was hoping you’d answer that 🙂
Allow me to recap. Option 1: Recapture at 29.97 and do the pulldown myself. Option 2: Twixtor, used on a shot-by-shot basis, since the pulldown has been randomized accross every file (as Mr. LaRonde point out.)
I hate to beat this Twixtor thing into the ground, but I’m wondering if you guys aren’t recommending it simply because it will require a great deal of time and patience. After all, I don’t have a client breathing down my neck here. I used to do optical printing, frame-by-frame, hand-drawn rotoscoping. Patience, I assure you, is not an issue.
Now that have a certian grasp on what’s going on, it comes down to this. If Twixtor can yield good results (no weird compression or screwy interpolation) than I’ll use it, regardless of the effort it takes. But if the software does NOT do a good job, than it’s back to capturing after saving up.
Keying WILL be an issue. The footage is fairly dynamic, swish-pans and the like.
You’ve all been helpful. If I have any other questions I won’t waste your time and go straight to the Bascis forum. They’re just a bit slow in replying, if they reply at all (where’s that Gandhi-esque patience when I need it?)
Many thanks – SGM
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as far as ‘molding’ you…
there is a lot of info on the web (probably a loot here too) about the pitfalls of 24p in broadcast environments. but genereally, if you shoot 24p, remember that you will always want to edit in 24p (if you capture from tape you will always need to make sure that pulldown is removed, and even, better that the duplicate frames are removed). you don’t want to edit the interlaced 24p with pulldown, there are too many places where you can make a bad cut. even if you can live with the occasional ‘bad cut,’ you’ll have great difficulty going back to your progressive footage if you needed to (for additional compositing, or a progressive format like dvd or computer/web output) because your pulldown cadence will be all screwed up.
you’d also rather not have to edit in any true 30i footage for the same reasons mentioned above… you could try deinterlacing the true 30i and then throwing that into a 24p timeline, at that point you’ll have to determine if dropping a few frames every second looks better than blending a few frames per second.
the best route is to stay 24p through out a project then (if needed) add the pulldown when you print the final project to video. that way your pulldown is consistent the whole way through, but if needed you could recapture the entire thing and remove the pulldown and you have perfect 24p again.
you might also want to consider shooting with one of panasonic’s p2 cams. then you get files (versus tape, so no extra time capturing later) and if you shot 24p, you get 24p files, no pulldown to remove. it may make life much easier.
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actually i don’t have twixtor, nor have i used it. it may work for you, and if you have access to it, try it. you could also try andrew kramer’s deitnterlace in after effects tutorial here:
you could additionally deinterlace in photoshop (as you mentioned before) if you really wanted… you just need your footage as an image sequence, then created an action (a set of steps that you set up in photoshop) that will deinterlace an image (filter in ‘video’), then set up a batch opperation in file>automate… using your deinterlace action, select your image sequence folder and a destination for the new files.
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[moldyboot] “you could additionally deinterlace in photoshop”
That’s what I’m talking about! I used to love these old fashioned, frame-by-frame allnighters. I think I just needed someone to point out the proper filter. I actually had no idea PS could deinterlace single frames. I’ll certianly look into it. This, I gather, is the option that carries the smallest “surprise!” factor.
Thanks for the link too. I’ll try it all. By this next time next month, I’ll be the one telling newbies to go back to their day jobs.
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Right. At 30 interlaced, all of the tape’s information is there. Captured at 24, a good deal of it was removed. That a lot of creative licence to give Twixtor. Too much for my taste. Maybe now’s a good time to stop diluting myself about “fixing it in post”.
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[Dave LaRonde] “If it does, you’ll be spending a lot of time at your friend’s place, no?”
I babysit his kids from time to time. But Mr. LaRonde just drove it into my thick skull: Captured at 24 interlaced, there might simply be too little info for Twixtor to go on. God only knows what kind of stuff it’ll manufacture to fill in the blanks.
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Sorry about that. You ARE Mr. Laronde! Didn’t mean to give you an identity crisis there.
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It’s Six Flags now, believe it or not. Still, you built us one helluva wooden roller coaster.
FieldsKit looks good on a first, clumsy try. But the render keeps crashing. I’ll keep at it.
Meanwhile, I watched Mr. Kramer’s tut on the poor-man’s deinterlace. Very simple and very good, except that, without having tried it, it seems to take for granted that you don’t mind lossing half of the frame’s information. As I understood it, you’re removing one set of fields and essentially blurring the remaining set. I scored a ridiculously talented DOP and the Panasonic DVCPRO50 camera gives incredibly juice images, considering their resolution. I just can’t bring myself to sacrifice all this data.
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[SSGGMM] “FieldsKit looks good on a first, clumsy try. But the render keeps crashing. I’ll keep at it”
First: We’ve had no report on FieldsKit crashing AE, so if you have a good replicatable example, we’d like to get our hands on the project + footage. You can write to us at techsupport (at) revisionfx (dot) com.
Okay, I’ve been waiting to weigh in here on this topic, because I’m still a bit confused as to what you have (and it sounds like you are confused too 🙂 ).
It SOUNDS like what happened was that someone captured 24 (23.976) fps footage onto 29.97i tape, with some kind of pulldown added (either added upon capture, or added in-camera upon shooting). And then that footwage was digitized at 24 (23.976), so much of the original footage info is missing as a result. Does this sound correct?
If you can send us a 20- or 30-frame clip at the same email address as I listed above, perhaps I could help shed some light at what happened to your footage and whether or not FieldsKit, or Twixtor, or both are relevant to helping you fix the problem. It would be best if you sent us a section that has a lot of movement within it (which makes it easier to figure out what happened upon capture).
Cheers,
pete Litwinowicz
https://www.revisionfx.com
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