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Field order issue_more complicated than usual
Hello,
I have seen many posts on his topic and have even posted in the past. But now I have come across something that has completely stumped me.I have a DVD output with field order flicker after it is finally burned.
It is coming from a FCP timeline with both DV res and 10bit uncompressed footage. The 10bit uncompressed footage was captured from a Dbeta master using FCP, and the DV NTSC footage was taken from DVCAM masters using FCP.
Here is the process:
FCP timeline with DV/NTSC and 10bit Uncompressed material
Export hi res 10 bit uncompressed quicktime
import QT into DVDSP (make sure encode option is set to lower field)
Burn diskTypically, the 10 bit uncompressed footage flickers, but the DV res material does not. Although after trying many solutions, the reverse often becomes true.
Have tried the following solutions:
Change sequence settings in FCP to either 10 it uncompressed or DV NTSC
Change FCP sequence settings to either lower field or auto
Export QT with either 10 bit uncpressed, animation, or DV NTSC codec
Set encoding options in DVDSP to either lower, auto, or upper. Have changed bit rate, amount of pases, quality of motion estimator….
Export MPG2 out of FCP timeline with Compressor with either field order
Export MPG2 out of FCP timeline using quicktime conversion with either field order
Bring Quicktime movie with Animation codec into the Digital Rapids converter card, converting it into an MPG2At this point I have tried countless, countless combinations of all these solutions.
The results always involve either the 10bit uncompressed material flickering, or the DV res material flickering. Always either one or the other. There seems to be no rhyme or reason, no logic like “whenever the encode settings are at auto, the DV res material works.”I have never seen any solutions on the cow here on the topic of field order other than “make sure the field order is set to lower.”
There clearly is something different about the way the encoders are interpreting the source footage in my FCP timeline.Does anyone know of a way to “force” field order into something. Is there a way I could take an uncompressed Quicktime Master file and force all the footage to have the same field order.
I have also though of laying off the timeline to DBeta, then doing a straight encode from the deck using something like the Digital Rapids (very pricy for my situation though).
Are there any other solutions?
Any help would be appreciated,
ThanksTerry
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9 Replies
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Have you tried the “shift Fields” filter on the Beta footage?
System Info – G5/Dual 2 – 10.4.8 – QT v7.1.3 – 8GB ram – Radeon 9800Pro – External SATA Raid – Decklink Extreme – Wacom 6×8
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Sorry if I was unclear about this.
The 10bit material was color corrected and exported out of a final touch system to DigiBeta. Then that was captured by FCP. When viewing its formatting information in FCP you will see “lower field first.”
The DV Res material is a collection of various footage collected over the years, and then archived to DVCAM. This was then captured with FCP using the default “DV NTSC” setting in FCP. When vieweing its formatting information in FCP you will see “Not set” in the field dominance. Strange since you would think that the DV/NTSC default in FCP is to capture with lower field first.
It is maybe possible to recapture the material from the DV/NTSC material, but any recapturing beyond that is not possible.
Thanks for any more help,
Terry
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I have not, is it a filter in FCP?
Terry
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Firstly – does the 10 bit material flicker when viewed on an external monitor from the FCP timeline? Do you have an external monitor to view it on?
Secondly as previously mentioned you need the “shift fields” filter applied to the 10 bit clips, check if FCP has done this automatically if you you’ll need to do it manually.
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“Here is the process:
FCP timeline with DV/NTSC and 10bit Uncompressed material
Export hi res 10 bit uncompressed quicktime
import QT into DVDSP (make sure encode option is set to lower field)
Burn disk”So you’re exporting a hi res 10 bit regardless of the codec in the timeline?
Just to be clear, it doesn’t matter what codec your media is in. What’s fouling up the MPEG-2 is the frame size. Typically it would screw up with 720×486 material, but be good with 720×486 material (since DVD needs to be 480).
I have never had a problem with 10 bit 720×486 -> export QT reference movie -> take into Compressor -> Duplicate MPEG-2 60 minute fast encode -> set fields to Lower First -> run Compressor – > resulting m2v and ac3 file into DVDSP.
Name: mpeg2_lower
Description: No description
File Extension: m2v
Type: MPEG-2 video elementary stream
Video Encoder
Format: M2V
Width: 720
Height: 480
Pixel aspect ratio: NTSC CCIR 601/DV
Crop: (L: 0, T: 4, R: 0, B: 2)
Frame rate: 29.97
Frame Controls: Off
Aspect ratio: 4:3
Field dominance: Bottom first
Average data rate: 5 (Mbps)
1 Pass VBR enabled
Maximum data rate: 7.9 (Mbps)
High quality
Best motion estimation
Closed GOP Size: 15, Structure: IBBP
DVD Studio Pro meta-data enabledLike Steve asked, does it flickr on a monitor when you’re playing back in FCP? It could be that the fields got re-ordered from Final Touch. Some machines lay back to digi lower field first, some do upper field first. Also the Digi may have been set to edit on the wrong field. In this case, the Shift Fields filter should help.
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Exporting directy from FCP to Compressor helps avoid these kinds of issues. When you do this, FCP tells Compressor additional information that QT cannot.
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Hello everyone,
thanks for all your input on this.In terms of monitor, no I am not viewing it from a moniotr. Have viewed the same 10 bit material previously and had no problems. The 10bit material actually works flawlessly on its own, it’s only when I am trying to COMBINE the material with DV NTSC material that this problem occurs. Each type of material works fine independantly of themselves, but when combinie together on a timline and encoded into an MPG2 something goes sour.
In terms of Compressor I have tried it many times for this particular situation, with all field settings correct, resulting almost always in worse results than either QT conversion or DVDSP’s internal encoding. If you check out the DVDSP board on the cow it is covered in people having compressor related problems, and so I have found it to be wise to avoid it when working with anything beyond DV NTSC material.
Although I have had no problems in the past with this material, I guess I must bring in my moniotr to the FCP station I am doing this on.
Thanks again for all the suggestions,
Terry -
Terry,
all you have to do is shift fields on the 10 bit material and it will work fine!
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[Terry Hahin] “In terms of monitor, no I am not viewing it from a moniotr.”
Not to be crass, but if you had been using a video monitor, you would have seen this problem as soon as you put the 10 bit material in your timeline.
Arnie
Now in post: Peristroika, a film by Slava Tsukerman
https://www.arniepix.com/blog
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