-
FCPX or R15?
-
[Herb Sevush] “You pay the money so that you don’t “occasionally” get great results, you pay for equipment that will always give you great results, under any conditions.”
“equipment” NEVER gets you great results.
The experience of the people behind the equipment does.
And what I’ve seen is that my experience is in danger of aging out.
I stopped using my Neumann and starting using a Rode because my Sony shotguns (that had been in service for 20 years) got too old and the internal wiring developed issues. I didn’t want to spend a fortune, so yes, I picked up a modestly priced Rode shotgun to replace it. I thought long and hard about a Sennheiser, or an Audio Technica, or any of the dozen pro mics I know would hold value better. But then I came to my senses.
I’ve been was tossing OUT totally pro-quality gear for 15 years now. $30,000 cameras. Tungsten light kits. Announcer mics that cost me a bundle in their day. It has ALL aged out of reasonable service.
And about that cheap Rode mic?
Surprise, surprise, used property it actually turned out to work BETTER than those classic mics. All the off axis rejection, none of the sunk cost, and self noise that was essentially unmeasurable due to modern components – just like what you find in iPhone’s recordings. A Sony that cost me $650 1985 dollars out-performed by an Australian knock off that cost me $100 bucks.In Las Vegas to do the exact type of production I’ve been involved with for 30 years – we didn’t run nearly as much XLR or BNC cable. But we ran a TON of Cat 5.
Buying for 20 years of equipment longevity was something I could support in the 80s. Because I got 20 years of use out of it. But now I look around and see WAY too much gear sitting fallow and virtually useless today. I’m shedding old gear again in two weeks. And it’s a pain to see things I paid good money for ten years ago worth NOTHING today. But that’s the reality.
Anyone want to buy a digital phone hybrid useful for an on-line call in show? I’ve got one. And NOBODY needs it anymore. Skype has seen to that.
Even GRIP gear is starting to show it’s age. When a big LED array weighs 2 pounds and the hero monitor weighs 3, all those C-stands and the boxes of Mafer and Cardillini clamps are WAY too much for the jobs I need done today. I’ll keep one or two and sell a dozen off.
Some things won’t change. But the ratio of things that WILL to what won’t – keeps accelerating.
Keep up (kids of ALL ages) – it’s gonna get bumpy out there, IMO.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Oliver Peters] “You’ve proved the point. Take the shot of your wife’s photo and zoom in 100%. The compression level that is being uses together with the in-camera sharpening make the image quality quite poor. Sure, at a distance it looks great, but it simply doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Of course, the camera you have with you is better than no camera at all, which is why this style of photography is so successful in the marketplace.”
Not sure the point. It’s a 30 cent lens according to Herb. Seems to me it’s a pretty damn good use of 30 cents!
Outside of a NCIS situation where somebody thinks they’re going to zoom and enhance to read a page on a book on the table for clues to a murderer – this level of detail is so far beyond anything I’ve been able to carry around in my pocket – as to be scary.
And this was (iirc) on an iPhone 6plus. I’d be nice if this was a 4K still directly from my iPhone X sensor! I’ve watched some of the iPhone spots where Apple used that same sensor as source material for national Ads running on 4K TVs and you know how much less effective those ads are compared to anything adjacent to them? ZERO.
There’s NOTHING functionally wrong with the images. They attract the same eyeballs at the same rate with the same perception of visual draw as ANYTHING else.
If your argument was something like back in the Hi-8 days that over generations – the utility of the images degrades too fast – I’d listen to that. But you can’t. The 1s and zeros never change.
The more you guys try to prove that the ONLY way to get eyeballs is to use the same processes we used in the 1980s – the more silly it seems.
I remember on sets in the 1980s the engineers doing the EXACT same “pixel peeping” you are doing in this thread – trying to argue that nothing less than 1″ type C was ever going to be “professional” enough to go out on TV.
And we all know how that turned out.
I’m all for capturing the best images we all can. But NOT at the expense of understanding that the images we can acquire in our daily lives now – without out ANY crew or gear considerations attendant to that capture – are where the visual language of the world is headed. And that while bespoke, crafted imagery will always be valuable and, heck, just FUN to create for those of us who love image-making – it’s NOT going to drive the same distinction between practitioners that it once did.
That’s just inevitable, in my view.
But feel free to keep on the path of service to the top 1% of content distribution systems. Maybe that will turn out to be the correct play.
Time will tell.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “But would you like to try that on a 4K still directly from that sensor?”
Your post seems to have been edited along the way. But, yes, sure. However, the original JPEG as recorded in-phone, would suffice, if you stomped on it more to post here.
[Bill Davis] “I remember on sets in the 1980s the engineers doing the EXACT same “pixel peeping” you are doing in this thread – trying to argue that nothing less than 1″ type C was ever going to be “professional” enough to go out on TV.”
There’s really no pixel-peeping here. The differences are obvious at 1:1 (100% image size) without any additional zooming in required.
[Bill Davis] “They attract the same eyeballs at the same rate with the same perception of visual draw as ANYTHING else”
Attracting eyeballs isn’t the end-all, be-all of the story. But you can attract eyeballs in many different ways. Your argument seems to be that a smart phone camera is the equal in every way to products much more expensive , but also better designed and engineering and with better glass. That’s the disagreement here.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
-
Yep, I thought of a better example to express my argument, moments after I posted the original. It happens.
My overall point is still that Herb argued that the iPhone has a 30 cent “piece of crap” lens. And I showed a simple example of what the 20 cent version from a couple years ago was actually capable of.
I contend that the image I posted taken through that 20 cent lens did NOT represent a THOUSAND times less quality than what you can achieve with a $200 “nifty fifty” – let alone a piece of $2500 prime glass.
And sorry, but if you have to go to 200% on a 2493×3528 raster to point out major image anomalies, the game is kinda already over.
I understand all the reasons a serious lens can be a smart investment. But for how long? And in what form? We’ve seen video cameras move from HD to 2k to 4k and now to 8k over just a few years. And dedicated still cameras have pretty much followed the same path. Cooke and Canon and Angenieux are surely still safe for a while. But there’s a lot of industrial weight tipping towards technologies like Micro4/3s these days. We’ll see where that goes.
You should really keep your eye out for the Michael Cioni piece from Faster Together. He made a very powerful argument for where this stuff is going. Using history and math.
It’s worth looking for.
Be interesting to see whether his predictions will prove valid over the next few years.
Creator of XinTwo – https://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery. -
[Bill Davis] “Be interesting to see whether his predictions will prove valid over the next few years.”
Have always very much liked what Cioni has brought to the table. Will most definitely be looking out for that. He’s a smart guy. The thought of hearing him made me think of this…
… and I’d imagine that it’s something along the same lines. Where the overall topic could easily be an analogy for this one. Extremely worthwhile watch imho, either way.
Clearly a very painful and scary reality for the die-hard “ICE drivers” here. ????
– RK
____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!
Youtube | FacebookSome contents or functionalities here are not available due to your cookie preferences!This happens because the functionality/content marked as “Google Youtube” uses cookies that you choosed to keep disabled. In order to view this content or use this functionality, please enable cookies: click here to open your cookie preferences.
-
[Oliver Peters] “Take the shot of your wife’s photo and zoom in 100%. The compression level that is being uses together with the in-camera sharpening make the image quality quite poor.”
Wow. That’s just… depressing.
[Oliver Peters] “Sure, at a distance it looks great”
Pfff… but who cares about content, right?
Yeah, we get it.
If DaVinci and Picasso had just not used such shit paint but TODAY’S superior hi-rez paints, mixed to perfection… they could’ve actually made some quality work and something of themselves!
That’s the level of argument we’ve reduced ourselves and the craft to. We’re that scared.
– RK
____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!
Youtube | Facebook -
[Herb Sevush] “But would you be just as happy to use the iphones’s built in mic for recording?”
Aside from being a complete straw-grasping non sequitur? Yeah, I’ve used it MANY times and it’s been brilliant. So? Anyone that thinks that’s nuts or laughable, clearly has never actually used it themselves. Or they are just another pompous, self-proclaiming “pro” who is reduced to having to judge the quality of their work by the price tag on a box and random tech-specs. As a cheap distraction from a lack of actual content and ability. Amazingly sad actually.
[Herb Sevush] “With video you are stuck with the built in, cheap, POS lens of the iphone, which is why there is no equivalence between recording audio and video on a smartphone.”
Sure. Whatever you say.
– RK
____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!
Youtube | Facebook -
[Bill Davis] “And sorry, but if you have to go to 200% on a 2493×3528 raster to point out major image anomalies, the game is kinda already over. “
You misread. I said 1:1 (100%). ACTUAL size.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters – oliverpeters.com
-
[Bill Davis] ” my experience is in danger of aging out. “
Taking audio recording as an example; experience with specific pieces of equipment is always aging out, experience in understanding mic placement ages out more slowly, experience evaluating the emotional connectedness of a reading never ages out.
[Bill Davis] “And about that cheap Rode mic?
Surprise, surprise, used property it actually turned out to work BETTER than those classic mics. All the off axis rejection, none of the sunk cost, and self noise that was essentially unmeasurable due to modern components – just like what you find in iPhone’s recordings.”I’m not questioning your use of a Rode mic for VO, but it sounds like you are also saying the iPhone is just as good as the Rode. If that’s the case why are you bothering with the Rode at all?
[Bill Davis] “When a big LED array weighs 2 pounds and the hero monitor weighs 3, all those C-stands and the boxes of Mafer and Cardillini clamps are WAY too much for the jobs I need done today. I’ll keep one or two and sell a dozen off.
“Flags and nets weigh as much as they ever have, Cameras that once ran on floor dolly’s are now running on Danna dolly’s, I’m sure you’ll get a good price on your C-stands and clamps.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin\’ attached to nothin\’
\”Deciding the spine is the process of editing\” F. Bieberkopf -
[Robin S. Kurz] “Aside from being a complete straw-grasping non sequitur?”
It’s only a non-sequitur to those that can’t see the connection.
[Robin S. Kurz] “Yeah, I’ve used it MANY times and it’s been brilliant. So? Anyone that thinks that’s nuts or laughable, clearly has never actually used it themselves”
I don’t know if it’s more nuts or laughable but I do no that any sound recordist showing up on a shoot with only his phone in his equipment kit would be sent home, quickly.
[Robin S. Kurz] ” Or they are just another pompous, self-proclaiming “pro” who is reduced to having to judge the quality of their work by the price tag on a box and random tech-specs. As a cheap distraction from a lack of actual content and ability.Amazingly sad actually.”
I don’t know if you keep with the horror show that is American politics but i must say that those final three words are hilariously Trumpian. Too bad this was not a tweet.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin\’ attached to nothin\’
\”Deciding the spine is the process of editing\” F. Bieberkopf
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up