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FCPX or Not?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “By the way, you said that you were going to Avid? Check this out, Avid has a gap system as well:
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/17575The link above relates to to a Simon Ubsdell post that says:
“Consider this from the Media Composer manual:
When you use the Lift/Overwrite tool, the application adds filler to the sequence to maintain sync.”While this does suggest that slug, or filler to use the Avid term, is added to maintian sync actually nothing physical appears in the Avid timeline at all. An empty gap is created containing “nothing”.
Indeed Avid offers 2 options here – “lift” which acts as above and “extract” which moves everything up closing the gap like FCPX
best wishes
Neil
http://www.patience.tv -
[Rafael Amador] “For me is basic to have a from the beginning an spatial view of every element, the position in time and the size (duration).
Jeremy, for my self, the gaps are as meaningful as the stuff already lied in the sequence/project.
The “White holes” is where there is the work to do. Once they are filled, I have my story-line.”And gaps do not hinder this workflow in the least bit. As a matter of fact, I would argue they are more flexible.
[Rafael Amador] “Sorry I do not accept the “Secondary Story-line” concept. That’s an Apple invention.
An ITW where you use few B-rool shoots to cover the cuts, to call that “Secondary Story-line” is simply pretentious. “You do not have to have a secondary storyline to add a cut away.
[Rafael Amador] “However that makes sense for example for a weekly TV program with a fix structure ; where the real stories (the contents of the program) are the “Secondaries”
Then is OK. You work your Secondaries compound them, and connect them to a Primary Story-line that is ready because doesn’t changes from program to program. Few adjustments and you may have everything ensemble in minutes.”I guess that’s a potential use, sure, but definitely not the only use. Auditions will be a powerful use for versioning. One timeline is now as many as you need it to be.
[Rafael Amador] “Happily I ran away “
Good luck to you, Rafa. I hope you find the proverbial FCP8. I am going to stick around here for a while and see what happens.
Jeremy
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[Neil Patience] “While this does suggest that slug, or filler to use the Avid term, is added to maintian sync actually nothing physical appears in the Avid timeline at all. An empty gap is created containing “nothing”.
Indeed Avid offers 2 options here – “lift” which acts as above and “extract” which moves everything up closing the gap like FCPX”
But later in the thread, it’s mentioned that it’s trimmable and works like a gap. If there was an option to make FCPX gaps invisible instead of looking like an empty clip, isn’t it the same? See here:
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/17580
https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/17577
Jeremy
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Avid’s filler is essentially a 100% transparent Gap clip, if you want to call it that. That’s why, when you select clips in Avid that are separated by filler you have to select the filler between them as well to move them up and down a track. It maintains sync, but the filler is the same color as the track so it appears as a blank space.
That said, Avid’s “gap clips”, aka filler, are very elegantly handled. You can add effects to them and they work like adjustment layers. You can trim them to shorten or lengthen them. You can select them and move them up or down or right or left and they will overwrite other clips in overwrite segment mode or push clips if you’re using insert segment mode.
If you use Mark Clip on a section of filler and extract it, Avid will remove the filler and close the gap but only on the selected tracks – it’s not an “entire timeline ripples”. This is both good and bad in that it makes it a little more complicated to move the entire track, but it also gives 100% control to the user, and the behavior is consistent across all modes. Filler is a transparent clip and acts as such. It’s rather brilliant, really.
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
[Neil Patience] “While this does suggest that slug, or filler to use the Avid term, is added to maintian sync actually nothing physical appears in the Avid timeline at all. An empty gap is created containing “nothing”.”
This is not entirely true.
You can actually pick up the “gap” clips in the AVID timeline using the segment tool and move them around, even overwriting or rippling other clips as you do so.
So I would say that conceptually it is identical to what is happening in FCPX, although marginally less obvious.
Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
[Simon Ubsdell] “So I would say that conceptually it is identical to what is happening in FCPX, although marginally less obvious.”
Not really, though. In Avid, you can select the gap and move it, but it’s treated as though it’s a clip so new filler is left in its place. The edit system makes no assumptions that you want to close that gap just because you selected and moved the filler that was there. If you want to close the gap, you select and delete or mark the filler and extract it.
FCPX, on the other hand, looks to close the gap when you move the gap clip – it’s assuming that’s what you want to do. In David Lawrence’s case, that’s not what he wanted so the software was wrong and now he has to fix it. If the gap clips were treated consistently with regular clips it would simply replace the gap clip you’re moving with another gap clip. In my opinion, Apple got this behavior wrong.
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
[Michael Hancock] “FCPX, on the other hand, looks to close the gap when you move the gap clip – it’s assuming that’s what you want to do. In David Lawrence’s case, that’s not what he wanted so the software was wrong and now he has to fix it. If the gap clips were treated consistently with regular clips it would simply replace the gap clip you’re moving with another gap clip. In my opinion, Apple got this behavior wrong.”
As has been mentioned in the other thread, you hold option and a gap remains, essentially copying that gap, so it’s already been fixed! If you want to remove the gap, you select and delete, or use the selection tool instead of the position tool to move it.
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I need a full mix, plus mix minus music, Plus all elements separate. Roles doesn’t do that.
But there are so many other reasons that I won’t be using FCX, so many features that are wrong or missing, that I won’t be going near it. Jeremys right, trying to explain the work around to get this to work is pointless. FCX won’t be a part of any project I work on. Simply doesnt have my needs in mind.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
I guess that’s a fix, but the program is still treating gaps differently than clips in this instance, but the same in other instances. It’s inconsistent and is still making an assumption about your intent. If the default was to replace a gap with another gap but a modifier modified that behavior it would be more logical, wouldn’t it?
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Michael Hancock
Editor -
[Shane Ross] “I need a full mix, plus mix minus music, Plus all elements separate. Roles doesn’t do that. “
Say what? I know you don’t care, but it’s not true. Using Roles/Subroles, I think you could do this in two passes.
One for the full mix, one for everything else in whatever combo you need. Literally.
You can even go so far as to name the roles, “Track” and have subroles “Track 1 – Track 16”.
Anyway, not trying to argue here, just mentioning for future readers.
Cheers.
Jeremy
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