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FCPX metadata–how significant is it? And why?
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[Walter Soyka] ”
What if Bill decides to switch to another NLE? Is he locked into FCPX’s integrated DAM, or can he get that valuable data out of FCPX and into a new DAM of his choice?
“Walter,
In a world where 10 minutes after anything significant is released – somebody CRACKS it and posts it to the internet, are you really arguing that RAW DATA that is known to flow inside the FCP-X interface freely won’t EVER be “hooked into” for export?
Even if only 500 people want to do that. (to stretch credulity to the breaking point) And some 10 year old in Bulgaria can drive half of THEM to his website to download “X-Data Cracker” for a $10 pay pal re-direct, you can COUNT on it happening.
Pure demand economics at work!
(only partly in jest here!)
(and come to think of it, I’m actually kinda pulling for some 10 year old in St. Paul, MN. It’s winter kids, come in side, get warm and get coding! America’s future depends on you!)
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[Bill Davis] “why build it as a “resolution agnostic” tool otherwise?”
I have seen this argument many times in support of FCPX as a “pro” tool, but it doesn’t persuade me.
In the 1990s, resolution independence was still a fantasy. There were no systems capable of high resolutions, and the computers of the time struggled enough with fixed, low resolution frame rates. The benefits of optimizing for specific, current usage outweighed the benefits of building a generalized system which the current hardware wouldn’t support.
But for any company designing a new NLE product in the twenty-first century, an age where standards are changing faster than ever and computers are incomprehensibly powerful in comparison to the systems of a decade and a half ago, why would you not build in resolution independence? Why would you not allow floating point computation for renders? Why would you not leverage other modern and well-designed technologies that you’ve built into your operating system, like AVFoundation, ColorSync, and CoreData?
A lot of the things we’re pointing to as proof that FCPX was designed for pros may really just solid software engineering that will allow FCPX to grow over time and accommodate change better than FCP Classic’s infrastructure allowed. Good systems architecture is helpful for development, but it’s not a feature unique to professional applications.
In other words, given the absence of significant “pro” features like *insert-the-pro-feature-that-FCPX-lacks-that-breaks-your-workflow-here*, I think it’s hard to argue that presence of some “pro” features like resolution independence conclusively indicates that FCPX was designed for pros. Building an app with features pros would use and building an app that pros can use are two different things.
Can pros use FCPX? Some yes, some no. It totally depends on your workflow needs. Smart features like resolution independence are certainly useful for pros, but they are also just plain good design, are very useful to Apple developers, and will ultimately lower Apple’s cost of FCPX future development.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Oliver Peters] “Good question. Explain that to my FC Server client. 😉 Why do you think Murch puts more faith in his FMP database?”
Indeed. Looking forward, I think DAM lock-in is much more of a threat for most of us than project file lock-in. Any one project file increases in value until the project is delivered, and then it usually decreases in value thereafter.
Your DAM database, on the other hand, continually increases in value (and cost to recreate) as you work. If your metadata is not portable, you end up tying yourself to one vendor a little tighter every day.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Bill Davis] “Which is all well and good.
FCP-X takes “Find Whatever” AND gives you a way to persistently group all the Whatevers together – and after you’ve done that, you can narrow that list down to only BLUE Whatevers, and make THAT persistent recallable data.
If you can’t see how that might be more useful that being limited to “find whatever” then fine.
Your choice.
“Why do you think I can’t do “find whatever” in FCP 7? AND put them in a group? I’m getting the feeling that some folks here never used the more advanced functions of “find.” You DO know that you can search keywords, don’t you? And that you can label sub clips? And that you can combine all kinds of searchable metadata like “Linda,” “MCU,” “Blue,” and “Whatevers?”
And that it would gather your search into a single bin? And that you could make a permanent copy of that bin with a couple of keystrokes?
I’m not trying to be obstinate here, but I’m just not seeing the magic.
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Right.
Just seem a little more cumbersome to me. I would rather not have another window have to pop up,
when I could just use that one that’s already on screen in X. -
[Chris Harlan] “I’m not trying to be obstinate here, but I’m just not seeing the magic.”
Do you really use the find function all that often? How big are your projects in terms of number of media clips and timelines?
When I use the Find function in FCP7, it results in a beachball until it cranks though what it needs to. Sometimes, it doesn’t crank through and hangs. It sucks. i then have to go through clip by clip to find what I want. In FCPX, I can simply start scrubbing all the clips form the search with no loading/clicking.
Here’s what happened when I search for footage shot by a particular shooter in a current FCP7 project, and the search took 43 seconds:
With FCPX, I could start typing his name and before I was even done typing, all of his shots would be displayed.
FCPX is way more fluid and instant, and then tagging those clips is much faster and dynamic and you won’t have multiple physical copies of the clips in separate bins where the master clip relationship might get screwy. You can choose to store them for later use, or not. Another instant search can bring them right back up again.
With 7 yes, the clips come up in a “results” bin, and then you can put those clips in yet another bin, but the implementation is no where near as useful and fluid as FCPX.
Also certain characteristics of makers simply aren’t searchable in FCP7, and then once things go in to the timeline, even more of the metadata characteristics become unsearchable. Not so with X.
While yes, “Find” does work in 7, it’s slow and inefficient compared to FCPX.
Jeremy
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[Bill Davis] “But isn’t’ the very concept of a “REEL ID” a contextual thing?”
If you don’t understand the importance of needing a REEL name, be it tape or tapeless, how on earth can you consider yourself a ‘professional’ video editor? The fact that FCX doesn’t show you the reel name unless you dig for it also shows their views of the needs of the professional. It shows that they either have no clue what our needs are, or chose to ignore them.
I’m amazed that you are even questioning the importance of the REEL ID.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Bill Davis] “In a world where 10 minutes after anything significant is released – somebody CRACKS it and posts it to the internet, are you really arguing that RAW DATA that is known to flow inside the FCP-X interface freely won’t EVER be “hooked into” for export?
Even if only 500 people want to do that. (to stretch credulity to the breaking point) And some 10 year old in Bulgaria can drive half of THEM to his website to download “X-Data Cracker” for a $10 pay pal re-direct, you can COUNT on it happening.
Pure demand economics at work!
(only partly in jest here!)
(and come to think of it, I’m actually kinda pulling for some 10 year old in St. Paul, MN. It’s winter kids, come in side, get warm and get coding! America’s future depends on you!)”
Are you really talking about demand economics for advanced features in a room full of people willing to pay much more than $299 for a modern version of FCP that works in their workflows? I thought the whole point of FCPX was to deliver the features that most people needed, and delay or ignore the specialty features?
Maybe the 10-year-old Bulgarians and Minnesotans are all too busy working on $10 EDL or legacy FCP project import for FCPX to start your metadata migration project today?
In all seriousness, Bill, Apple has chosen to totally ignore vast amounts of legacy FCP project data.. They made everyone start over, and you’ve been telling us over and over that it’s a good thing.
What makes you think it will be different for FCP 11? What if they change their pervasive-metadata-relational-database model and it breaks all the hard work you put in? You could tag all your footage for years. It may be your metadata, but as of today, it’s locked up and Apple holds the key, not you.
Think it couldn’t happen? Ask a facility that standardized on Final Cut Server.
My main point here is that metadata that spans assets and projects is more valuable than any of any of your existing assets or projects themselves. Given how much business value you are locking up in one single place, I don’t think it’s crazy for me to ask about a migration strategy.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “I have seen this argument many times in support of FCPX as a “pro” tool, but it doesn’t persuade me.
“OK. It’s not a “persuader” for you. For the reasons you state. (perfectly good ones in my opinion) Fair on all sides.
I’ll put you down for “to my thinking, I expect resolution independence from ALL editing software as a baseline value.” FCP-X gets the “resolution independent” checkmark, as does PPro, Vegas, and AVID.
No significant winners or losers in that area.
I just appreciate that you’re a clear example of someone who’s keeping an open mind about the program.
You keep acknowledging time and time again that you’re not actively looking to recycle “talking points’ to either promote it or diminish it – but looking for the reality under the surface.
Something I believe is valuable to everyone here.
So I’ll try my best to avoid future thinking that some people here might see file resolution capabilities as a pro/amateur differentiator – and not understand that it’s actually more of a “given” today.
Thanks for helping me be better aware of that.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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Well, perhaps because I think of it as a CARD ID, now.
And I have about 40 Disk Images of those cards – all TAGGED with their own IDs – that FCP-X handles fluently and flawlessly.
When clips show up in the EventBrowser as “offline” I can see those CARD IDs – because that’s built into part of my metadata strategy. (and yes, I had to think about what would be the best way to TAG that rather than letting the camera manufacture TELL ME what that ID should be.) Then I insert the corresponding Disk Image via any storage media I like down (to a thumb drive CLONE of the original camera card) – and upon launching that – ALL my data re-links to my FCP -X project nearly instaneously.
That doesn’t actually BEHAVE much like a REEL – which required a single, physical presence to be loaded in order for the editor to extract the contents from it. So in my considered opinion, in a world where I might wish to have multiple CLONES of virtual reels, someone else’s idea of what I might need as a REEL ID, might range from simply inadequate to downright STUPID in the context of my preferred workflow.
Does that help you understand my thinking about REEL ID issues?
Or do you just want me to send you some of the old 1″: type C reels in my closet from the early days of my career to prove to you that I have some understanding of what a REEL actually represents?
(sorry, just couldn’t resist)
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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