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FCP6 Does NOT Add Pulldown When Mixing Formats
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[Sean ONeil] “nother thing. If you place a 1080 or 720 clip into a 486 timeline, it SHOULD always scale that to 480, not 486.”
Why’s that?
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[JeremyG] “Why’s that?”
Just the way scaling works. The simpler the division (or multiplication) the better the results.
Sean
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[Sean ONeil] “[gary adcock] “if your outputting SDi, then is this not a card issue?
No, not at all. This is Final Cut issue.”Sorry , but that is flat out wrong. if you are outputting via HDSDI – it is a card issue, and the card MFGs can and do make this work correctly
[Sean ONeil] “A Kona/Decklink is only capable of outputting one format. It would have no way of knowing that some of the clips need 3:2 pulldown, and some are native 29.97”
Again depending on the format the Card needs to be able to correctly add the pulldown, if you are shooting 720p24 the card should add the correct pulldown on output via HDSDI. 1080 24sf is a different matter.
“What if I want to export a Quicktime for use on another NLE or DVD authoring?”
the QT conversion aspects- which I have to agree are / have been screwy for awhile and that FCP 6 is still reverting to the stupid 2:2:2:4 cadence for playout only to save CPU cycles.
“You will never find a broadcast tape with 2:3:3:2. That’s just a goofy prosumer form of pulldown used by certain DV equipment. Let’s not get off topic.”
Funny, you did mention Broadcast earlier- and the Advanced pulldown is used by a quite a few post houses in LA for their SD down-converts to simplify the process AND in the 1080i > 24psf workflows from Panasonic and Canon cameras. yeah just some goofy DV format.
However – who delivers a Broadcast Master that do not use a 3 party card for the SDI/ HDSDI output? I do not know of an HDCAM, or Digibeta deck that have FW inputs on them.
and since virtually no one accepts a DVCPROHD master tape that leaves out the only FW capable recording decks for the vast majority.gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows -
[Sean ONeil] “I hope you are right, but I looked and couldn’t find anything. Even if it is there (I’m fairly certain it isn’t) “
FCP > System Prefs > Playback Controls
I am absolutely certain that is it there.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows -
“[Sean ONeil] “nother thing. If you place a 1080 or 720 clip into a 486 timeline, it SHOULD always scale that to 480, not 486.”
[JeremyG] Why’s that?”I am with you Jeremy, the SMPTE D1 spec is 720 x486 and HD content dropped into a UC NTSC timeline should correspond to the Timeline spec not some errant users idea of what it should be.
Now should that timeline be a compressed DV or DV50 version different story since the timeline there is already 720×480 do to the compression’s existing frame size.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows -
[gary adcock] “and since virtually no one accepts a DVCPROHD master tape that leaves out the only FW capable recording decks for the vast majority.”
That is changing. We deliver DVCPro HD masters here to a European network and are petitioning a US network to accept them. I understand Discovery Networks accept DVCPro HD as a Master format for some time now.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.All Things Apple Podcast! https://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html
Read my blog! https://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi
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You have a very simplistic view of things. Why does it have to “correspond” when the 6 lines fall well within the overscan area?
The output of the timeline would still be 486. Just that 6 of those lines are black. This is standard practice when converting between the two, as you know (and the makers of FCP6 apparently don’t know). It’s still 259M. Otherwise it wouldn’t even work over SDI.
Again I say, HD should scale to 480 every single time. Whether the sequence and output is 486 or 480. The entire purpose for SD standards switching from 486 to 480 was because 480 is an even multiple of 16. This improves the quality for scaling and compression. DV, DV50, DVD, SD MPEG Broadcast – any SD format to come out in the last 10 years is 480. None of them are 486. There is a reason for it.
Scaling HD to 480 is the best way to do it. And this is how a computer program like Final Cut should handle it.
If name calling and name dropping is your only way of arguing against it, please let someone else do the arguing.
Sean
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Sean,
I agree with your findings 100%. These issues should be very troubling for professional who are invested in FCP. They point to a severe lack of understanding of very basic video knowledge on the FCP team. It’s crazy that they highly tout the new ability to mix formats, but in practice its not done correctly at all.
The scaling issues at least could and should be very easily be fixed in an update.
Maybe if enough people point this stuff out, they will get the point:
https://www.apple.com/feedback/finalcutpro.html
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[JeremyG] “As far as FCP not adding 3:2, the pattern you describe is adding 2:2:2:4 which is what FCP used to do for 23.98 dv footage if your computer wasn’t fast enough to add 3:2. Perhaps there’s a setting/preference for this somewhere? I have not done the upgrade yet, obviously.”
This is only for firewire output of a 23.98 timeline
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It’s these quibbles with FCP that keep some of us onliners in business. While we have no immediate need to go to FCP 6 – these sounds like the exact same issues I deal with daily in FCP5. Field ordering problems, pulldown issues, scaling issues between formats.
from an offline POV, it’s great, you can just shove crap into a timeline and edit with it. but FCP has always been a little sloppy, IMHO, with how it deals with video technically.
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