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FCP X destroying audio edits in XML output
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[Bill Davis] “Do you stand by the fact that – X itself destroyed audio edits in your XML output?”
I’m still quite comfortable with it. Actually, if you re-read your original post, you were talking about destroying audio, not audio edits. I’m glad you clarified that, as that’s what I was talking about.
As a matter of fact, I’m still wrestling with a 10 min. short that is not exporting correctly into any of the possible apps. I’m taking a file home to check it in Logic, but right now it only export with one of two audio channels using Resolve. Not right at all through Xto7. So while part of the issues I brought up appear to have been solved by direct import into Resolve, that isn’t universally true.
I absolutely fault FCP X with this, because Apple has chosen to create a new, non-standard export format (FCPXML) instead of anything that is commonly used. It’s a neat little way of washing their hands of any problems.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
After some continued testing, it turns out that the loop through Resolve doesn’t completely work after all. The export from Resolve is interpreted as having mono, rather than stereo or multichannel tracks.
Logic seems to work reasonably well and takes in the right levels. Some clip I/Os are still wrong. X2Pro seems to do the best for clip accuracy, but levels are stripped off.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
Oliver,
Did you consider that Apple likely uses a “non standard XML” because FCP X itself is a “non standard” NLE?
And evolution was a core design goal? Apples engineering team is often surprising, but when they change things, it usually turns out there is an underlying reason.And un the case of X XML if it can’t evolve to incorporate new ideas, what good is it?
It seems that overall, teams like the Grants at BlackMagic can parse present day FCPX XML pretty successfully, after all.
It’s clear you have robust needs that go beyond most users in your work for multiple types of clients. So I appreciate your frustration when X doesn’t always do everything you need. But I still don’t think that justifies the type of alarmist tone of your original thread title.
If it turns out that there is actually some big reproducible flaw in how X works that creates widespread grief in the user community, I’ll be back promptly to apologise.
But I honestly dont think thats how the thread developed, so it can be argued that we’re left with a persistent thread title that is, at best, overblown.
That won’t stop the world. But it’s also not what I usually expect from your typically more reasoned postings.
Simple as that.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Oliver Peters] “I absolutely fault FCP X with this, because Apple has chosen to create a new, non-standard export format (FCPXML) instead of anything that is commonly used. It’s a neat little way of washing their hands of any problems”
Hi Oliver –
I can see your frustrations! Another point of curiosity. I like to avoid going to multiple systems as much as possible, to the point where it has influence in the workflow and tools. I had a gig with a producer a couple months ago that I wanted to use X for but some work had previously been in 7, so I felt it was safer just to stay there. Maybe I am off-base, but, like my project timelines/sequences, I try to keep my workflow as simple as possible. Why force an issue?
Knowing that you needed OMF’s (which admittedly I have not supplied to an audio house in years), why did you start in X and not simply use FCP7?
However, today I start on a project with hundreds of DSLR clips to sync. If I get audio problems, I will be cursing right there with you! 🙂
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
[Scott Witthaus] “Maybe I am off-base, but, like my project timelines/sequences, I try to keep my workflow as simple as possible. Why force an issue?”
Depends on the project. On many of these, I’ve cut in X, round-tripped to Resolve for color grading and passed off elements to a compositor for some After Effects work and to a mixer for Pro Tools mixing.
[Scott Witthaus] “Knowing that you needed OMF’s (which admittedly I have not supplied to an audio house in years), why did you start in X and not simply use FCP7?”
Because until recently, the ‘X to FCP7 for OMF’ process has worked quite well. Something has broken in the recent changes with FCP X.
BTW, what have you supplied to audio houses? I still get a lot of push-back when I try to send AAFs. I’ve had audio quality problems (crackling) on some projects when I exported baked audio as roles.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Bill Davis] “Did you consider that Apple likely uses a “non standard XML” because FCP X itself is a “non standard” NLE?
And evolution was a core design goal? Apples engineering team is often surprising, but when they change things, it usually turns out there is an underlying reason. “While that is certainly true, I’d be willing to bet that much of the reason Apple has shunned standards like EDLs, OMFs and AAFs with X is that they don’t want to pay licensing fees to others in order to use these technologies. I have no particular problem with FCPXML if it actually worked. But from everyone I’ve talked to that actually works with it as a developer, they have a lot of frustrations with it. It keeps changing and based on my experiences, seems to be very open to interpretation, as evidenced by the fact that one developer can get completely different results than another. Some route honor levels and fades. Some don’t. It’s a real crapshoot as to what you’ll get, depending on where you go with it.
Most of the time FCP X is great if you stay within its wall garden. Unfortunately X still gets a “D” in the “plays well with other” category, IMHO.
[Bill Davis] “It seems that overall, teams like the Grants at BlackMagic can parse present day FCPX XML pretty successfully, after all. “
Yes, but then they are unable to correctly parse it go the other way.
[Bill Davis] “But I honestly dont think thats how the thread developed, so it can be argued that we’re left with a persistent thread title that is, at best, overblown. “
I guess we disagree. No different than “CC screwed me this weekend. Sigh.”
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “But from everyone I’ve talked to that actually works with it as a developer, they have a lot of frustrations with it. It keeps changing and based on my experiences, seems to be very open to interpretation, as evidenced by the fact that one developer can get completely different results than another.”
Oliver,
I’d be interested in a more detailed post about FCPXML, its history and related issues … if you were considering such a thing for here or your blog.
Franz.
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[Franz Bieberkopf] “if you were considering such a thing for here or your blog.”
I don’t know if that’s something I’ll tackle. It keeps changing and I don’t know that I’ve tracked all the issues. Ironically “FCP 7” XML is considered a pseudo-standard by many companies these days. That’s what Adobe is using, though there are some differences.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
I’m sorry, but isn’t this the nature of any exchange format?
X2pro, which creates what I am assuming is an official AAF, doesn’t work everywhere, like Audition, an audio editor.
Pr can sort of import AAFs from x2pro. Is this x2pros fault? Or the incoming program’s fault?
I think you’ve proven that there’s a lot of data available in the FCPXML, so how exactly should we blame Apple for this, and what should we blame them for?
This problem is not limited to Apple, it is the nature of translation, even of the human language.
Not everything translates perfectly from native tongue to native tongue, and if you get two different translators, you might get mostly the same information with subtle differences.
Hell, even fcs3 wasn’t a prefect translation between its own apps using XML.
For a brand new standard, I think it’s doing OK, despite it’s moving target status.
I haven’t had an AAF rejected, as a matter of fact, most audio folks
I work with have embraced it. -
[Jeremy Garchow] “I’m sorry, but isn’t this the nature of any exchange format?”
It’s not the fault of the exchange format IF IT IS A STANDARD – which AAF is. Whether or not companies decide to be compliant to the standard is obviously an issue.
[Jeremy Garchow] “so how exactly should we blame Apple for this, and what should we blame them for?”
Because Apple choses to ignore industry standards most of the time.
[Jeremy Garchow] “For a brand new standard, I think it’s doing OK, despite it’s moving target status. “
That’s a cop out. We are past the 3-year point. Apple should be better than this.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com
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