FCP X as a database

[Oliver Peters]

[Charlie Austin] “It was absolutely not my intent to imply you didn’t know how to organize things, I just posted that because it’s exactly how i would have organized it in FCP 7.”

No problem. I didn’t mean that you had. In re-reading my response, I guess it sounded harsher than I meant. We’re cool.

[Charlie Austin] “With X I can work the same way, but also mark favorite ranges which effectively makes sub clips for me, which I can view if i want to. So… for me, it’s way more efficient. I also have to disagree about the load time. It really doesn’t take long at all. The events load way faster than projects in FCP 7.”

I get what you are saying and don’t disagree. I work differently in X than I do in other NLEs. Some good, some bad from my POV. As far as multiple Events, I was merely expanding on ways that it made sense. In fact, ways that seem to coincide with Apple’s ideas for why they named it “Events” (and not Bins) in the first place. 😉

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Charlie Austin]

[Oliver Peters] “No problem. I didn’t mean that you had. In re-reading my response, I guess it sounded harsher than I meant. We’re cool.

Phew… I hate to think I come across as a jerk… unless I’m trying to. lol

[Oliver Peters] … I work differently in X than I do in other NLEs. Some good, some bad from my POV. As far as multiple Events, I was merely expanding on ways that it made sense. In fact, ways that seem to coincide with Apple’s ideas for why they named it “Events” (and not Bins) in the first place. ;-)”

Yeah, I started out trying to work exactly the same in X as i did in FCP7. And it mostly worked. I’m now at the point where I’m starting to try and work the “X way” for lack of a better term. Sometimes i really like it, and sometimes it drives me batshit crazy… but usually because of stuff that lacks polish or doesn’t work quite right yet, or because I’m used to doing stuff in a way that’s different… not because of how it works… if that makes sense. Also, I equate collections to bins and events to projects. So I can have as many “bins” in a “project” as i want, just as I’m used to doing… Semantics right? -edit: FWIW, I don’t import anything into my events once I’ve created them. I make a bunch of keyword collections (bins) and drag stuff from the finder into the collections. The fact that those clips all show up in the Event as well is an afterthought…

Other than that… color code-able/group-able Roles, match frame replace Edits, maybe some sort of Z-Index for video clips so they’ll stay put when compositing and I’m a happy camper. I mean, there’s a lot more I’d like to see added and or improved/fixed, to me that’s all just icing on the cake… But again… that’s just me and how I work. 😉

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Bret Williams]

So I don’t get the gripe. In legacy, it took forever to open projects if you had a lot of bins and media. But you probably wouldn’t have had multiple projects for a film. Or perhaps you would. So, no different here. If you wanted to have multiple events (like I’ve said, they’re more like a legacy project than a X project is – event is the new project and project sort of a new sequence) you could. And to put it all together in the end, in FCP 7 you’d have to open multiple projects, and in X you’d have to mount multiple events. I don’t really see much difference logistically between the two, except that X gives you more options for keeping track of projects than 7, which had none.

[Bret Williams]

[Charlie Austin] “FWIW, I don’t import anything into my events once I’ve created them. I make a bunch of keyword collections (bins) and drag stuff from the finder into the collections. The fact that those clips all show up in the Event as well is an afterthought…
“

That’s exactly what I do, except I usually don’t even create the keyword collections. They’re usually already on my drive as folders like BRoll, Graphics, AE renders, Camera 1, Camera 2, etc. Then I might make some more keyword collections as things progress.

But the whole thing just makes more sense. Heck, in FCP legacy, you could delete all the clips from your bins and the timeline would still work. I wonder what happens in X? That would be interesting. Would answer some of those link questions earlier…

[Oliver Peters]

[Bret Williams] “So I don’t get the gripe.”

It’s an issue of the design of the UI, not the actual functionality. In the hypothetical 100 Events, there is no way to group them within the UI itself. You cannot place them into folders and tuck them out of the way, like you can bins in a single FCP 7 or MC project. Thus you end up wading through them to find the one you need.

And yes, each large Event *IS* slower to open than a bin inside FCP 7 (once the project is open) because the clips all have to be populated with thumbnail and waveform links, even when in the list view. The difference is that in FCP 7 or MC, the slowness only happens once at the start of the session. With FCP X it occurs DURING the session at any time you first click on an Event for the first time after opening the app.

– Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Bret Williams]

I feel the complete opposite for most imports. If you import something into the wrong event in X, its nobody’s fault but your own. I drag from a folder on my drive to an event in the event window (or a keyword collection in the event.) If I drag to the wrong event, well, duh, oops, my bad.

And yes, nobody captures anymore from tape, but we do import/transcode camera archives and I guess you could do the same thing if you had the wrong event highlighted when you pressed cmd+i. But given that in X you only have one event window at a time (something I’d like changed btw) it’s a bit harder to do even that. In 7, you could have 5 projects open, but you only point to a set location for capture and render. On my home system, it’s all the same pegasus raid, so if I capture to the wrong project, it’s just moving some files. But at one facility I work at, it’s a media grid system. Each project has a number an that number corresponds to a virtual drive of the same name. So if you’re working in 7 on more than one project at a time, you need to be mindful of where your renders are going. If you render to the wrong drive, and then someone else picks up that project later in another room, the renders aren’t there

So it’s just different, but for the way I work it seems to be much more error proof than legacy ever was for media.

[Charlie Austin]

[Oliver Peters] “You cannot place them into folders and tuck them out of the way, like you can bins in a single FCP 7 or MC project. Thus you end up wading through them to find the one you need.”

Again.. semantics. X Events are like FCP 7 or MC Projects, not bins. You can open 100 projects in 7 or MC, well, in 7 you can… 😉 but you can’t tuck 100 projects into a folder in the UI right? KW Collections are the analog to bins. And you can stuff them into folders or subfolders or whatever you like inside the Event (the object formerly known as Project) 😉

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Charlie Austin]

[Bret Williams] “Heck, in FCP legacy, you could delete all the clips from your bins and the timeline would still work. I wonder what happens in X? That would be interesting. Would answer some of those link questions earlier…”

Here’s what happens. LOL

It warns you…

and then…

Undo fixes it…

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~

[Carsten Orlt]

[Franz Bieberkopf] “The “database” threads on here tend to be a lot of proselytizing – usually about power and imagined features – and little actual information.”

Here is ‘a little information’ from Alban’s post before:
But once you are used to sort your media with metadata, there is no way back.
To create a bin of clips with specific format or resolution created on a certain date with a mix of keywords and maybe marked as favorites in an instance out of thousands of clips and dozens reels and cameras is only possible with a database working in the background.

Yes it is true the world was spinning before FCPx and you could tag and find your footage before and will long after FCPx has gone. I personally don’t care if FCPx is a database or if Avid is a spreadsheet or vice versa. I’m interested in usability and ease of operation. I have used Avid, Premiere and FCP 7 before and I must say, though confused in the beginning, the X way is the best for me. And if opening 100 Events will slow down this particular software, than I will adjust my organisation to avoid this problem. I could of course always say ‘see not ready yet’, but honestly the time I save these days organising my footage far out ways the time it takes to load the current Event with 3000 clips I’m working on.

FCPx is fully working now. They will improve it I’m sure, but I do not need to wait until ‘they sorted things out’, ‘make it usable’ and so forth.
If I for one second imagine

I would have to go back to describing footage by written description to be able to find content within one clip (rather than just skimming over it),

make sub clips which are not trim-able beyond their boundaries in the project timeline (every keyword or favourite section cut into the project timeline extends to the full length of the underlying media at all times),

use sub clips to mark favourite sections which I have to multiply into several bins because a sub clip section contains several talents (and than need to describe every single one separately to make sense of it later) only to find that I set the out point for the sub clip to early and than have to do it all again,

go through the timeline manually to identify all clips shot at a different frame rate (compared to just clicking on the fps keyword I created),

and I could go on and on..
..I would jump of the bridge :-))

Happy editing

[Charlie Austin]

[Carsten Orlt] “If I for one second imagine

I would have to go back to describing footage by written description to be able to find content within one clip (rather than just skimming over it),

make sub clips which are not trim-able beyond their boundaries in the project timeline (every keyword or favourite section cut into the project timeline extends to the full length of the underlying media at all times),

use sub clips to mark favourite sections which I have to multiply into several bins because a sub clip section contains several talents (and than need to describe every single one separately to make sense of it later) only to find that I set the out point for the sub clip to early and than have to do it all again,

go through the timeline manually to identify all clips shot at a different frame rate (compared to just clicking on the fps keyword I created),

and I could go on and on..
..I would jump of the bridge :-))
“

Nominated for post of the day. lol

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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~