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FCP X as a database
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[Bret Williams] ” I think everyone just became an expert at manipulating legacy’s shortcomings and now they’re confused as to why the app would actually have a mechanism for doing it itself.”
Agreed. I really don’t get why folks thing the event/project management in X is somehow inferior to that of 7. It’s just different. It’s like saying I don’t like new cars because I can’t manually advance the spark and adjust the choke when I start it. And it shifts for me? 😉
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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
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[Walter Soyka] “The data store itself is not as important as what the developers choose to store in it, what methods they provide within the application for accessing and manipulating that data, and what interchange they provide for third parties to access and manipulate that data.”
That is absolutely true.
But once you are used to sort your media with metadata, there is no way back.
To create a bin of clips with specific format or resolution created on a certain date with a mix of keywords and maybe marked as favorites in an instance out of thousands of clips and dozens reels and cameras is only possible with a database working in the background.It might seem to be Gmailish- “search – not sort”, but it is a reality in many productions nowadays. Footage gets piled on an editors desk and the deadlines don´t always allow for logging in all possible ways that might not be even known on the first edit or to the first editor or director.
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[Walter Soyka] “Yet that doesn’t stop a good number of posters from breathlessly marveling at the awesome power of the FCPX Database (with a capital D) or gushing about the wonders of the relational database model.”
Walter,
The “database” threads on here tend to be a lot of proselytizing – usually about power and imagined features – and little actual information.
A comparison of actual database structures (between Avid, 7, X, and Premiere) might be a place to start. I’m not sure we have either the information or expertise here to do such a thing – though I would love to be proved wrong.
Franz.
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[Bret Williams] “The event is the encompassing folder. You make sub-folders within the event. “
No. You can make folders within an Event that holds Collections. You can’t simply move clips from the main Event into ONLY the folder. That’s a lot different than organizing clips within Bins and Folders inside FCP 7 or MC. Correct me if I’m missing something.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Walter Soyka] “The data store itself is not as important as what the developers choose to store in it, what methods they provide within the application for accessing and manipulating that data, and what interchange they provide for third parties to access and manipulate that data.”
This is true with respect to single-user desktop NLEs, but there is a lot of upside to FCPX’s use of the Core Data API for multiple-user scenarios, live sharing, etc. I continue to wish for there to be a shared Event database that FCPX can address as a client to enable live sharing of Events, but that seems less and less likely to happen.
Flat file datastores cannot permit that kind of granular multi-user transaction, which is why for instance shared bins on Avid Unity are read-only for everyone sharing the bin.
Best,
Andy -
[Oliver Peters] “You can’t simply move clips from the main Event into ONLY the folder. That’s a lot different than organizing clips within Bins and Folders inside FCP 7 or MC. Correct me if I’m missing something.”
This may or may not address this, but I rarely look at what’s in the event. Everything goes into folders or collections(bins) within the event. I look at the Event sort of like the project tab in fcp 7, it just tells me what “project” I’m working on. Unlike 7 I can highlight it and see/search everything in it, but I never use it for editing… FWIW… here’s a couple screenshots… my events library from a “project” I just finished up, and the project library with one folder open. All the other folders have on average about the same amount of projects in them. Sorry it’s so long, but you get the idea…
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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
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[Bret Williams] “There’s no chance of accidentally capturing project A into project B’s capture scratch folder just because both projects are open.”
Actually that’s not true. Aside from the fact that you can’t “capture” at all unless you are using FW-based cameras or decks, it is possible to import media into the wrong event. If you have a Coke and a Pepsi Event – both visible – it is indeed possible to import Coke media into the Pepsi Event and the other way around. In fact, I contend it is MUCH easier to do in X than it is in 7, IF you set up your drive correctly in 7 in the first place.
Part of what Apple TRIED to do with the design of X was eliminate the editor having to understand the media location structure. They apparently had to field a lot of user problem support calls with 7 because of that issue.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Charlie Austin] “This may or may not address this,”
Yes, I understand how to organize in the Event browser, too. Collections are simply like Bins/Folders of sub clips. It’s not the same. The clip in now duplicated in the main Event as well as numerous Collections. Plus the more clips you have in an Event, the longer it takes to open and update changes within the session. Even in your screen grab you are showing 3 Events.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “I’m saying Apple should learn to be part of a larger community and take responsibility for those interchange tools. “
All I can think about is how many times people looked at my original Mac and asked me… “but is it MS-DOS compatible?”
If Apple had even TRIED to make it so – it would have KILLED everything that’s come along since.
Compatibility presumes compatibility with what HAS been. That’s great if all you want is to have your existing needs met.
Some companies, and Apple notoriously shines here, do actually ask if there’s a better way to do things.
Thank goodness.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Oliver Peters] “Yes, I understand how to organize in the Event browser, too. Collections are simply like Bins/Folders of sub clips. It’s not the same. The clip in now duplicated in the main Event as well as numerous Collections. Plus the more clips you have in an Event, the longer it takes to open and update changes within the session. Even in your screen grab you are showing 3 Events.
“It was absolutely not my intent to imply you didn’t know how to organize things, I just posted that because it’s exactly how i would have organized it in FCP 7. Same with the amount of Events. I always have my FX and MX projects open in 7, in addition to whatever project(s) I’m working on.
I really don’t see how it’s any different at all, other than the way it looks and what things are called, and the fact that the actual event can be selected to list everything that’s in it. In 7 it would just be a tab. I guess it’s probably a workflow thing… I never make sub clips or sequences of selects in FCP7, just shitloads of markers in my source.
With X I can work the same way, but also mark favorite ranges which effectively makes sub clips for me, which I can view if i want to. So… for me, it’s way more efficient. I also have to disagree about the load time. It really doesn’t take long at all. The events load way faster than projects in FCP 7. In fact the FX Event was exported from FCP 7, and loads about 3 times faster in X on the same machine. The projects take a little longer to load, but it’s not really much worse than if they were all in an FCP7 project when it was loading. YMMV… 🙂
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~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
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