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FCP X as a database
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[Oliver Peters] “I just feel that the iTunes approach involves a walled garden mentality where one application is trying to perform all functions and in the end does most of it badly. For the most part, users who are serious about what they do, don’t want a single all-encompassing application and will tend to opt for a suite of compatible, companion tools. “
That’s a rather broad generalization, don’t you think? I take my job seriously, and throwing more disconnected tools at me does not make feel any better.
I thought one of the cons of FCPX was it’s reliance on third party helpers. Now you are saying that’s what people want? Or are you saying, Apple (or any company) must build an NLE, a DAW, a grading system, a compression application, a compositor, and perhaps some sort of media asset manager all as separate entities with various levels of integration and non integration?
What suite of tools are you talking about? The Creative Suite? Final Cut Studio? Where does something like Autodesk Smoke fit in to this?
Are you saying FCPX is trying to be an “all-in-one”?
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[David Lawrence] “[Oliver Peters] “Absolutely. One of X’s very big weak points. Right now there is no way to effectively manage (within the application) a production that would generate 100 Events and 100 Projects. I don’t mean the software can’t handle it (though I have my doubts) – rather that the interface does not effectively support it for the operator.””
Could you give an example where you need 100 Events and 100 Projects?
[David Lawrence] “[Jeremy Garchow] “I am just curious as to why it’s all of a sudden a bad idea to make an NLE a hub. Isn’t that what everyone was so pissed about on day 1? You couldn’t get data in or out of it?”
Can you get tags and keyword collections out of it?”
Yes you can. Look and the new Share tab in the Events section (next to Info).
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[David Lawrence] “I think there’s a potential bloat problem with the event and project library databases in situations like Oliver describes. What’s the largest number of projects you’ve had in a library? How was the load performance? I’m curious because I even though I only have a handful of simple test projects, my project library load time is not great.”
I don’t know, maybe 20? I don’t really worry about because of San Locations.
I hate to always bring this up, but San Locations solves this problem in spades. I am extremely lucky to work with a SAN. I realize that not everyone has that opportunity., but I feel it’s worth it to keep bringing it up.
It allows the mounting and dismounting of Events/Projects from within the application. It is easy, it is fast, it is convenient, but most of all it gives FCPX better capabilities.
Why Apple doesn’t add this capability into Non-SANd environments is beyond me. I mean, I know there’s some technical reasons in that the SAN Location permissions are controlled by FCPX, but it seems a more “dumbed down” version could be included so people could mount/dismount local folders from within FCPX.
[David Lawrence] “I’m curious because I even though I only have a handful of simple test projects, my project library load time is not great.”
Opening 20 FCP7 projects or 20 CS6 projects (trick statement) at once would cause some slow down too. X takes a different approach in that it presents all of the data visibly to you, but only actually ‘loads’ the data when you click on it. I seem to find once a Project/Event is loaded (cached?), it responds as normal.
I have an FCP7 project I have been working on for a client for going on two years now. It takes 15 minutes to open and about 48 seconds to save, and that’s just one project. It’s not extremely huge (about 65 MBs) but it has a ton of stuff in it. Big Pr CS6 projects take a long time to open as well. It’s the nature of the NLE beast it seems.
[David Lawrence] “Can you get tags and keyword collections out of it?”
KW collections, sure.
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[Carsten Orlt] “Could you give an example where you need 100 Events and 100 Projects? “
A news organization?
Political campaign?
Sports?
Anything with giant swaths of media that extend over days/months/decades?
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I think FCPx is doing the exact opposite of what you think it is doing.
It think it actually concentrates on the editing part of post and leaves colour correction/special fx/CGI and sound post to others.
It has both sections but in a basic form which will satisfy 90% of the market today and it has XML to talk to the rest for the 10% who need external solutions to finish their film.Rather clever on Apples’ part to stop trying to turn out a new software every 5 minutes like Adobe does to address a niche section of the whole post market.
Avid tried the same as Adobe by buying a lot of companies and it didn’t work (in my eyes).
Anyhow call other NLE’s organising inner worlds what you want, FCPx new way of organising footage is for me the best I ever used. I do long form projects and understand if you do short form stuff it might not be that obvious, but for long form un-scripted work it is god-send. Plus the incredible ease and quality of the picture engine makes it a joy to work with. It’s not the only software that can combine images to make a film, but it is a very nice one indeed. And I’m not missing anything since leaving FCP7.
[Oliver Peters] “For the most part, users who are serious about what they do, don’t want a single all-encompassing application and will tend to opt for a suite of compatible, companion tools.”
I sometimes fall into the same trap so: we All shouldn’t assume what the ‘majority’ wants by going by our own preferences. We are passionate and would like to convince everybody about our point of view. After all that is the reason we’re on the ‘debate’ forum. But I for instance I’m very serious about what I do and hate application suites with a passion :-))
What I want is not for one company to make all different post applications. I want each company to concentrate on one section and find the best solution. One company making all will always want you to stay within the fence. If all you make is one aspect you WILL make it talk to others, or make other be able to talk to you if you’re confident enough that they will want to play with you.
I think Sony with Sound Forge and Autodesk Smoke are clear indications that Apple will not return any high-end FX (beyond Motion) or audio editing applications. My prediction is: iMovie and FCPx for editing, Motion for graphic design (no need for a smaller sister as it is only $50 and home movies don’t need it), Garageband and Logic for Music, iPhoto and Aperture for photos, and that’s it.
Happy editing, whatever the tool.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “A news organization?
Political campaign?
Sports?
Anything with giant swaths of media that extend over days/months/decades?”
And what would be the reason that I couldn’t add media to a smaller amount of Events in each of those cases?
If I know that having many Events open might cause problem, why would I do it? Wouldn’t I use Events differently and reorganise so I use less Events? The only reason to have a separate Event is actually when you want to use media in this Events in more than one Project over a longer period (Archive footage).
And don’t confuse this with wanting to make many Projects from one Event.It does take a different way of organisation. 🙂 And sometime only to avoid hangs or crashes. All software does that to you….
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[Jeremy Garchow] ” have an FCP7 project I have been working on for a client for going on two years now. It takes 15 minutes to open and about 48 seconds to save, and that’s just one project. It’s not extremely huge (about 65 MBs) but it has a ton of stuff in it. Big Pr CS6 projects take a long time to open as well. It’s the nature of the NLE beast it seems.”
Yes, no argument from me there. It can take a long time in any NLE for any number of reasons.
[Jeremy Garchow] “[David Lawrence] “Can you get tags and keyword collections out of it?”
KW collections, sure.”
I may have been unclear. Can you export the tag/keyword metadata in a way that is useful in other programs? For example, can keyword collection data be exported and translated into bins via XML and/or some kind of translation utility? If that were possible, I would consider using FCPX as preflight organization tool ala Adobe Prelude, and cut on a timeline that is more to my liking.
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David Lawrence
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[Carsten Orlt] “And what would be the reason that I couldn’t add media to a smaller amount of Events in each of those cases?
“No reason. I was just throwing out hypotheticals as was Oliver.
I’m not saying you should load 100 Projects/Events, but that won’t stop people from trying.
I could also see large establishments that want everything online as it is an inherent advantage in X (although Oliver seems to be saying that X handles this badly).
Jeremy
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[David Lawrence] “I may have been unclear. Can you export the tag/keyword metadata in a way that is useful in other programs? For example, can keyword collection data be exported and translated into bins via XML and/or some kind of translation utility? If that were possible, I would consider using FCPX as preflight organization tool ala Adobe Prelude, and cut on a timeline that is more to my liking.”
Keyword data is exported in Event/Project XMLs. It would be up to the receiving application/translator to make use of it.
Jeremy
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[Oliver Peters] “How is FCP X any more of a database than Media Composer or Premiere Pro with embedded XMP data? “
In practical terms, there is little to differentiate FCPX’s SQLite-based Events and Projects from the flat-file methods employed by its peers. I’m still waiting to see more of Final Cut Server’s DNA emerge in FCPX’s feature set. I’m not holding my breath though.
Best,
Andy
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