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FCP, EDLs, 24f and AVID = one big headache
Hi there,
Had a wee search around but couldn’t find any threads with quite the same question as mine. Hopefully someone can help me out because I don’t have too much hair left to pull out.
The situation: We’re just starting out as a company and have self-funded a small project. Ended up with about 40 hours of footage for a 10-minute promo (with the potential series intended for TV). Found an editor willing to do us a big favour cost-wise, and we have cut down a (very) rough cut on our Macbook/FCP – leaving perhaps a couple of hours worth of footage for him to play around with.
Now comes the problem. Our editor is using Media Composer. We knew we could export an EDL and reconnect the timeline with the media by batch capture. Only problem is, we shot in 24f on our A1. No Avid support for this.
I’m now desperately searching for workarounds. We don’t have the $$$$ for Automatic Duck. We want to keep the editor’s workload as light as possible, given his bargain rate.
Has anyone struck this problem before? More importantly, has anyone found a decent solution? Please ask me for any details I haven’t made clear – a little frazzled … !
Cheers in advance,
Jimmy -
10 Replies
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Hi Jimmy,
Haven’t had a lot of experience with this but I fear you might need to convert your footage shot to a format compatible to the AVID. You can do this using the Media Manager in FCP. Your editor could then edit on the AVID and you can always bring that final version back into FCP and re-convert it to 24fps, if this is not available from the AVID.
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G’day Danny,
That’s what I was thinking, my concerns being:
Can we somehow integrate these new files with all the EDLs so neither we nor the editor has to capture and/or re-cut everything over again? I’m sure there should be a way – it seems to make sense – but I can’t quite figure it out.
And will all these conversions start to affect the quality of the footage?
Cheers,
Jimmy -
Hi there — Avid will not look at those clips unless they are Avid clips. If you simply convert them, you will lose your time code info, and yes, you will take a quality hit. Media Composer will do 24fps, it just doesn’t like your format. If you only have 2 hrs of material. your best bet is to create a 24fps project, import the EDL(s) or the bins, and re-digitize the material. 2-3 hrs max, about the time it will take you to sort this out with some other kind of workaround.
To convert the bins, check out Sebsky Tools — it works great and costs nothing.
Good luck!
Paul
Paul Allman
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Time for that editor to learn FCP. Doing so is pretty easy…easier to go from Avid to FCP than the other way around. If you start a project on one platform, stick to that platform. If you knew he was an Avid editor, you should have done this on an Avid. Or the other option is to have him cut on FCP. He may struggle with a few things, and complain a lot about the cruddy trim features of FCP, but he should be able to get it cut.
And learn how to use FCP as well. Although I know many Avid editors who refuse to change their editing habits and learn how the new system works…try to force it to be an Avid. So that might not work. Depends on how flexible your editor is.
Communication is a very important thing…
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog! -
Paul, many thanks for your help.
So am I correct inferring:
The problem is that the EDL (which opens successfully on the other system) is then telling Avid to batch capture at 24f, which Avid can’t do?
So, I should convert the EDLs with Sebsky, and the converted EDLs can then be used by our editor to capture the tapes into a 24p project?
If so, this definitely sounds like the best option – it’s pretty much what we were going to do anyway. The only problem is, I just had a look at Sebsky and it comes up with: “Video Standard Error: Sorry, but you can’t convert a FCP batch list using 24 fps.” Hmm.
Also, I just noticed you referred to ‘2 hours of material’ – a clarification – the way I’ve cut down the original 40 hours or so of footage is making a new project for each tape, capturing all 60mins, cutting the best bits and placing anywhere from 5min to 45min of each tape’s footage in the timeline. So re-capturing all of the footage isn’t ideal because it loses the entirety of that work. No doubt an amateur workflow but one I wouldn’t like to be punished too much for!
Thanks again Paul. The help doled out to this newbie (in many senses of the word) is life-saving.
Jimmy.
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Agreed Shane. I’ve emailed the editor asking if he has access to FCP and whether he’d be comfortable using it. He can’t use our FCP as my 13-inch screen isn’t exactly ideal…!
Lesson learned regarding keeping the project on one platform. We were severely limited for choice due to the tiny budget and it did seem like converting EDLs would be an easy solution. If only we hadn’t shot in 24f…
Cheers
Jimmy -
Hi — actually, I had recommended Sebsky only if you wanted to take a crack at converting the bins. You could also do this with a text editor. But from what you describe, there would be no need, and I am afraid it would cause you problems. Shane’s advice is of course succinct and correct, but it doesn’t sound like an option for you, for many reasons.
Avid handles 24fps just fine, especially a MC. What you have created are select reels. Your EDLs are probably fine as they are. Forget trying to reconnect to the files. Just import the EDL(s) into your MC and digitize the sequence as Avid media files, and start cutting.
good luck – paul
Paul Allman
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G’day Paul
Sorry for keeping on coming back to you over this. It’s the small details I have to check. One mistake I’ve made – describing it as an MC system. It’s not; it’s just Xpress Pro.
More details will help hopefully. Editor has been importing EDLs into Xpress Pro. They successfully open into a 24p sequence but show that the media is offline. He’s then trying to batch capture with DVCam decks, which is where the frame rate errors pop up.
Can you describe to me – what is the tangible/functional distinction between digitising the sequence and connecting media to the EDL?
Also, he’d like to try the camera as the capture deck in the hope it’ll integrate better with Avid. But I don’t see why this would be the case?
Thanks again,
Jimmy -
[Jimmy Visser] “They successfully open into a 24p sequence but show that the media is offline. He’s then trying to batch capture with DVCam decks, which is where the frame rate errors pop up.”
Well…there is one big part of your problem. You said in your first post…quote…”we shot in 24f on our A1.” And knowing that you said 24f I know this is a Canon XH-A1…an HDV camera, NOT DVCAM. HDV happens to be recorded onto DV tapes, but it is a completely different format. HDV opposed to DV. YOu need either the Canon camera to capture this, or a Sony HDV deck.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog! -
Ah yes. Nowhere quite like an internet forum to feel like a complete idiot. Of course that makes sense Shane. Assuming the editor would know stuff like that was maybe a little naive.
I guess my question to Paul still stands regarding the differences between digitising and reconnecting, but after our current job finishes on Monday we’ll have a crack at using the A1 as the deck and I’ll let you know how it goes…!
Cheers
Jimmy
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