-
FCP, EDLs, 24f and AVID = one big headache
Posted this over in the FCP forum but it applies here too, perhaps even more so. Please delete if this is some sort of awkward forum faux pas…
Hi there,
Had a wee search around but couldn’t find any threads with quite the same question as mine. Hopefully someone can help me out because I don’t have too much hair left to pull out.
The situation: We’re just starting out as a company and have self-funded a small project. Ended up with about 40 hours of footage for a 10-minute promo (with the potential series intended for TV). Found an editor willing to do us a big favour cost-wise, and we have cut down a (very) rough cut on our Macbook/FCP – leaving perhaps a couple of hours worth of footage for him to play around with.
Now comes the problem. Our editor is using Media Composer. We knew we could export an EDL and reconnect the timeline with the media by batch capture. Only problem is, we shot in 24f on our A1. No Avid support for this.
I’m now desperately searching for workarounds. We don’t have the $$$$ for Automatic Duck. We want to keep the editor’s workload as light as possible, given his bargain rate.
Has anyone struck this problem before? More importantly, has anyone found a decent solution? Please ask me for any details I haven’t made clear – a little frazzled … !
Cheers in advance,
Jimmy -
7 Replies
-
Import 24 frame EDL into a NTSC 24 frame project and then create a new EDL from there as 30 – the math will be applied for the 2:3 management to continue working in 30i (NTSC).
Michael
Michael Phillips
-
Thanks for the tip Michael. So can I confirm this is what you recommend for the process:
Export 24f EDL from FCP.
Import 24f EDL into Avid.
Export new Avid sequence as 30i (do you mean 30p/60i NTSC?)
Open 60i EDL in Avid.
Batch capture tapes using new 60i sequence.My questions would be: does this affect our ability to eventually output at 24p without losing generational quality? Also, we’re in PAL land – am I right in thinking we’re better to convert to 50i, or does that make the pulldown all screwy?
Cheers again
Jimmy -
[Jimmy Visser] “Also, we’re in PAL land – am I right in thinking we’re better to convert to 50i, or does that make the pulldown all screwy?”
This is a little out of my area of expertise (but right in Michael’s so I’m sure he’ll point you in the right direction), but in PAL 24fps (as implemented in video cameras) is a huge pain in the ass, as it’s all built around 2:3 pulldown into NTSC framerates. In PAL-land we just shoot 25fps progressive and be done with it – it works and we don’t need to suffer the pain that our NTSC friends do with maths and pulldown.
It might be that you end up working your project in NTSC framerates and then for PAL finish just applying the 4% speedup in going from 24fps to 25fps.
-
G’day Dylan
Cheers for the info. We went with 24fps because we wanted to retain the ability to sell in both (ie PAL and NTSC) markets. It appeared that 24fps would be the best way to achieve this – the least problematic in converting & finishing in both directions.
Of course I’m more than willing to have that idea argued out of me…
Jimmy
-
You are fine with the choice of 24fps, it is how decks deal with the timecode for the SD proxies. In NTSC, every second lines up and the frames have a 2:3 pulldown adjustment. In PAL, the decks like to recalculate from 00:00:00:00 so 24/25 will drift 4.1% over that time.
When you bring in your 24fps EDL from FCP, duplicate the column START (cmd-D) and select TC 24. This will recreate the original 24fps. Now duplicate the TC 24 column in the same manner to the TC 25 and it will ask whether you want to copy or convert. Select convert to get the 25fps timecode as generated by the deck for a PAL down convert. Now the Avid is tracking 24, 25, and 30 so you can generate EDL’s for whatever your needs might be.
Michael
Michael Phillips
-
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the walkthrough. I will definitely have a crack at it.
But I think my main concern is not whether Xpress Pro will handle the 24fps, but whether it can handle Canon’s 24f ‘version’ of 24fps. From all accounts it can’t – I read over at the Avid forums that direct Firewire 24f capturing is supposed to be arriving in the next instalment of Media Composer (3?).
I have seen one workaround where you can capture with HDVSplit, then convert the resulting m2t files to DNxHD with mpeg streamclip, but you lose timecode references – which are pretty important in this situation (and it adds quite a bit of work for the editor).
Bah. I don’t know. Way past confused. Thanks again for the tip, I’ll try it out on Monday and let you know how it goes…
-
The Avid products don’t yet natively hsndle the 24fps from these cameras which is why I was assuming you wanted to go to a 25/30 project type. v3 does not either, but is on the list for the next major release as something we want to do.
Michael
Michael Phillips
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up