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FCP 2K Timeline Realtime and Not Realtime?
Hi There,
We are having the following issue in regards to 2k timelines, I am going to make the beginning a little brief just to get the to the main point quicker, without skipping the whole process.
We are starting with 2k RED footage sending to color for the grade and then rendering back to FCP 2K timeline using ProRes HQ.
After the render from color everything appears fine, playback is perfect – no problems what so ever.
THEN, we always make a master quicktime of a finished sequence, in order to build an output sequence of multiple episodes for outputting to tape. Here is where the problem arises… After making a completely normal QuickTime export, no conversions, no adjustments, completely self contained. We bring that exact QuickTime straight back into FCP and drop it in the same timeline (or a timeline of exactly the same settings: 2k ProRes HQ) and all of a sudden it wants to render the whole QuickTime?
FCP does not detect that the clip is any different from the timeline, it does not ask to adjust the timeline settings to match the clip in anyway shape or form. Also, a side by side comparison of the format of the QuickTime and the original media it was made from reveal that it is EXACTLY the same as the media it was made from – that played back without any render or any previous problem at all.
What could it be that FCP thinks should need a render? And worse yet, what could it be altering in order to require a render?
I can provide more detailed system info if needed, but as a start, we are having this problem with Quad core intels, 8 core intels, anywhere from 256 vid cards to 712 vid cards, media stored on internal RAIDS, media stored on mini-SAS bays, FCP 7, FCP 6, Kona Cards, Blackmagic Cards, Video Output to Monitor enabled/disabled, Adjusting sequence settings through all options in the video processing tab, RT settings tab and still nothing seems to want to allow the QuickTime to playback without requiring render.
I really don’t know what else to try, any help/suggestions would be appreciated.
Liam.
Liam Ward
Sinking Ship Entertainment -
10 Replies
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[Liam Ward] “After making a completely normal QuickTime export, no conversions, no adjustments, completely self contained.”
How are you doing this? Quicktime Movie or Quicktime Conversion?
What are you doing with the audio?
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Definitely not QuickTime conversion, just QuickTime movie, it has made no difference if the file is self contained or not. The audio is included in the export, although it is just temp. It makes to difference if the audio is removed from the sequence or not and the render does not include any rendering for audio.
Liam Ward
Sinking Ship Entertainment -
Very strange. What frame rate? What frame size?
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Also, import one of your graded shots (from Color into FCP, and them compare the clip settings of that graded clip to the exported timeline clip. See if there’s any discrepancy. It’s easy to see in the browser to you put them in their own bin and compare all the columns.
Jeremy
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if you import the clip into your existing sequence it will not prompt to change sequence settings.
What happens when you make a new sequence and drop the file into that? Does it prompt to change settings and if so compare the settings between the old sequence and the new to see what is changing.
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[Liam Ward] “I really don’t know what else to try, any help/suggestions would be appreciated. “
My list of needs would be
Which version of 2K raster? Red shoots not standard 2Kx1024 which is not a standard SMPTE frame raster.
You do not mention what codec you are editing in, how your Color is set for output, are you using the “Send to” and “Return to” settings?
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows for the Digitally Inclined
Chicago, ILhttps://library.creativecow.net/articles/adcock_gary/AJAIOHD.php
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“Also, import one of your graded shots (from Color into FCP, and them compare the clip settings of that graded clip to the exported timeline clip. See if there’s any discrepancy. It’s easy to see in the browser to you put them in their own bin and compare all the columns.”
As mentioned in the original post, there are no visible differences.
Liam Ward
Sinking Ship Entertainment -
“if you import the clip into your existing sequence it will not prompt to change sequence settings.
What happens when you make a new sequence and drop the file into that? Does it prompt to change settings and if so compare the settings between the old sequence and the new to see what is changing.”
This was also mentioned in my original post – FCP does not detect or ask for any changes in the timeline.
Liam Ward
Sinking Ship Entertainment -
Hi Gary,
I could walk you through our entire cutting process, but seeing as there are no problems up until the end, I will just stick with the online process.
The locked cut (which was cut in ProRes HQ 23.98) is knocked offline and re-connected to the native red media in a “Red Using ProRes” Sequence – as laid out in the RED FCP whitepaper. To sum it up, it is just a 1080p 23.98 ProRes HQ sequence duplicated and modified in only the following:
– Frame Size = 2048×1152
– Aspect Ratio = CustomFCP will obviously not play back this timeline without render because it is Native RED media (REDcode Compression) but it will send to color.
This timeline is sent to color and it allows to make make full use of the RED settings tab once in colour.
Then, after the grade is complete, we render in colour as ProRes HQ media – no other conversions and send to FCP.
At this point, everything comes back and everything is still working perfectly, there are no renders needed in FCP and all the media plays back perfectly. Again the sequence is still 2048×1152 using ProRes HQ and now the is actually ProRes HQ compression, no longer REDcode.
At this point, we have always made an ‘edit master’ QuickTime of our finished timelines. We output this from say 4 or 5 episodes and gather those quicktimes in a new sequence to build a 1 hour long D-Beta output sequence. Again, all QuickTimes are always same as source, there are no differences in the timeline or any of the timeline settings.
Here is where the problem arises: When we bring that QuickTime back into FCP, whether you drop it in the exact same timeline that it was output from or a completely new project with the same timeline settings, FCP is thinking that the QT should require a full render. It does not ask to change the timeline to match the media, and there are no differences at all between this QT that has been output and the media that it was made from, which requires no render at all – no matter what project it is moved to.
Again there are never any conversions made to frame size, frame rate, etc.
Liam Ward
Sinking Ship Entertainment -
I take it that everyone is as stumped as I am hahaha
Liam Ward
Sinking Ship Entertainment
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