Exporting A Cinema Tools Audio EDL

[Matt Lyon]

Hi Richard,

Did you confirm that the audio TC burn in matches the clip’s timecode within Final Cut? Turn on the overlays in the canvas and select “show timecode overlays.” If the overlay doesn’t match the burn-in, then the problem is within the timecode track of the media, not in the cinema tools export itself.

You can also try exporting a “regular” EDL, with just you audio tracks. FWIW, whenever I have to deliver an audio EDL to a post house, I send plain ol’ CMX 3600 EDLs, one for each group of four audio tracks (four being the most you can put in a single EDL). I remove all video clips before doing the export(s). You might want to try this approach over the cinema tools route.

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto

[Richard Boddington]

Matt,

Thanks for the response.

My audio is recorded by a separate deck and doesn’t have TC that resembles the video coming in from the HDSR tapes. I tried exporting a regular CMX 3600 EDL but it’s only looking at the time code in the video, not the audio time code from the original on set audio records.

So for instance I have a clip on the time line that has a video in of HDTC 07:03:09:23 and the audio time code in is ATC 18:27:37:13. I need an EDL that will read the ATC, not the HDTC. The audio I am using now for my off-line is just the DV audio that comes from the HD tapes as they synched the field records to each take.

My cinema tools audio EDL is showing me the right Clip name and take, and the right hour and minutes, it’s my seconds and frames that are off.

It may be a setting that’s off some place? I ensured that my data base shows audio record of 30 fps and video TC base of 24 fps, and it’s still off.

All I can think now is that the post house used 23.97 to lay down the film to HD, but I can only change the data base video speed to 24 fps, not 23.97. My seconds and frames are off by 2-3 seconds each time though so it seems like a large margin if it’s just a 24 vs 23.97 issue.

R,

[Matt Lyon]

Hi Richard, I’m can only offer some educated guesses because I’ve never had your exact problem. There are a number of ways that things could have gone wrong. The lab could have simply done something incorrectly during the initial transfer and sync of the rushes. At least you have the TC burn in! So if all else fails, the sound editor can go off that … although you won’t win any friends 🙂

The offset could also be if the timecode was incorrectly set as Drop Frame, and it is really Non-Drop Frame (or visa versa). This type of problem would result in the timecode starting in sync and “drifting” further apart as you reach the end of each rushes tape.

You should be able to open the cinema tools database and examine the individual entries for each clip. Compare the Sound:Timecode field against the visual burn in, and check what the “TC RATE” is set as. If need be, talk to the sound recordist and verify what setting they used. You can manually edit the timecode here and hopefully fix the offset. A big PITA if you have to do every clip in the database, but it might be the only solution.

Hope this helps,

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto

[Richard Boddington]

Yeah I really hope a manual EDL “type in” would be the last resort.

I see you are in TO. I am working out of Deluxe Toronto on this. Hopefully one of their techs can shed some light on this. If I don’t get a perfect match the EDL is of course useless.

The last thing I can think of is that I didn’t import my shots into FCP using a .flx file. I figured there was no need since Deluxe was making the dailies into files and not putting them onto DVCAM. Plus they made FCP data bases for each days dailies.

If I have to re-import my video using the .flx files that would be fine. I can easily re-assemble the show based on an edl from my current edit.

I’m going to compare the first frame of visual ATC with a clips record in the data base and see what I come up with.

R,

[Matt Lyon]

Yay Toronto! Deluxe has always had great customer service in my experiences working with them. If they can’t help, they might be able to put you in touch with one of the sound guys at Tattersall across the street.

I don’t think the issue would have anything to do with not using the .flx files to import into FCP. It doesn’t really care about the Audio TC until it queries the Cinema Tools database to generate the EDL. Since the video TCs are all correct, this really points to the Cinema Tools DBase as the source of the problem.

If you can isolate exactly what the issue is, it /may/ be possible to get Deluxe to make new .flx files and then create a brand new Cinema Tools DBase. Export the Audio EDL again, point FCP and the new DBase, and cross your fingers 🙂
Good luck! Please post your findings, I’m curious to hear what the solution is…

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto

[Richard Boddington]

In the Cinema Tools data base there is an option the connect the clip, so I did this for a few shots. After doing that I actually got the right ATC in my audio EDL from one of the shots!! First time that has happened. It didn’t work on the other shots though. And I must have messed up the settings on the one shot where it did work because it doesn’t work now 🙁

The viewer in Cinema Tools says my shots are 23.98, and gives me the option to conform them to 24fps. I tried this and the numbers are still off.

At this stage I need a FCP expert on this issue to take a look. It does seem to be a data base issue as I did get one shot to work at one stage of the game. So I know it’s possible to do.

R,

[Matt Lyon]

Hi Richard, are you sure the clip that you got to work wasn’t working correctly before you connected it in the database? Simply connecting the media to the database record shouldn’t change anything in the database record. There isn’t really a way to do something “wrong” during this step (short of connecting the wrong clip — but that is easily fixed).

It is entirely possible that some clips might have the correct AUDIO TC, while others do not.

What you really need to do is connect ALL the clips from your final program to their respective entries in the database, then visually verify in Cinema Tools that the audio TC matches the info in the SOUND:TIMECODE field for each clip.

If they don’t, then you need to manually enter new audio timecode in the Cinema Tools database for every shot to match the visual burn in. You also need to verify that the “TC RATE” is set correctly, or else the timecode will drift out of sync.
Do not conform your clips to 24.00, they should remain at 23.98!
Are you currently in the Toronto area? I might be able to help or could recommend someone…

Matt Lyon
Editor
Toronto