effects for feature film

[Chris Smith]

I’m sure we could give much better resposes if you posted a sample frame from each scene you want fx for. Blood splatter can be done with particles. I’m sure you know that the sound fx will go a whole lot further than the fx will. If you over do the effect you can degrade the scare factor IMHO.

Chris Smith
https://www.sugarfilmproduction.com

[Kwanku]

Thank you for your reply.

Okay, i can put up a frame and describe what i would like done. May take a day or so. Not in the office at the moment.

What would be the best way to put up the pics to help you decipher?

Thanks for the input, yeah I am aware that sound goes farther and i have really learned that with this project. Any gore that i have even shown has been very quick. The blood splatter I wanted to use to enhance just a bit, not to make the scene. Plus it is quick cut in a way that it would not be seen for very long at all.

Dusty

[Andrew Shanks]

Hey Dusty,
for the eyes you’d pretty much do as you’ve done in FCP, …a spot of roto and tracking. The step up from that is to animate a small fake gleam (a ‘ping’) to make the eyes seem 3d and moist, …but dark black holes always look creepy, so its probably not worth going for the glint look.
As mentioned above, particles would be the way to go for the blood splatter. Various options abound, I’d probably use particle illusion, but you might have some success from the particles in AE, …adding some directional blur will help you here, so you don’t need much detail at all, basically blurred little points that radiate in the right direction (this is probably overkill as the points will no doubt be very small, …but maybe even have a play with the Mr Mercury plugin, as it creates very realistic liquid blobs, ….so even if you can’t use the plugins output itself, you might be able to render out some stills to quickly hand animate them flying thru frame with a bit of added motion blur).
As for the scraggy hair, you’d be looking at using a 3D app with a hair/fur plugin (various around), some 3D tracking software, and some patience. Basically you’d track the actor using the 3D tracker (might even be able to get away with doing it in 2D, but i am assuming the character will be moving a bit, and if its tracked in 3D, it means that the 3D app will move the hair naturally as the head moves). If it is a dark scene it could be hard to do (but likewise, if its a dark scene you might be able to get away with cheating the hair a bit more). Theres some nice 3D hair/fur around these days (I had a play with the new 3D Max hair plugin (standard with v8) last week, and its great, you can work the hair like a salon stylist but with paint brush ease, …and most good hair plugins in XSI and Maya are the same, …plus they respond to gravity and enertia in the correct way.

Those are my recommendations at least.

Goodluck,

andrew

🙂

[Kwanku]

Thank you very much for your response Andrew,
it is much appreciated.

Would you know anyone who would be interested in taking on the particle, hair effects? We are a low budget feature, but we do have a budget?

As far as the blood, particle effects. It is very quick shots. From my perspective should not be to intense, but I don’t have any experience at this to base that on?

The hair move…most of the scenes are dark but not to dark. There is some light to play with. Yes in some scenes he is moving, but it is in blips. Not long shots. A few seconds here a few seconds there. In one shot the demon is behind a wall and you only see half of it, but it is completely sedetary. Hair would add so much in terms of it’s look…do you have any referrals for this?

Also, as well…i edited the film in FCP HD i have placed in the black circles into the eyes, but my tracking is a little jagged. Do you know anyone who may be better at that than me?

Thanks!

[Andrew Shanks]

Hey Dusty,
unfortunately i live over in New Zealand, so unless you’re living down under I can’t recommend anyone (sorry bout that, but if where you are is anywhere like here, there are a number of great freelancers with their own gear that could help out). But maybe just put word out on one of the 3D FX forums here (3D Max, Cinema 4D and Lightwave guys are probably more likely to be affordable and do it for the love of it, …although if you can find a good maya or xsi artist with their own gear, then that would be wicked), in the blurb just put something along the lines of “3D hair artist wanted to model/animate/track/composite demon hair into location source footage”. Just indicate which region you’re in, describe the job briefly (as you did in this thread, maybe not even as specific, just a rough guide of what you want) and make sure they know its a low budget film (so you don’t get the high-end rip-off merchants taking you guys for a ride, …and from what I hear there are a few of those states-side, ….if you say you’re on a budget, show that technically you have some nouse yourself (i.e. say you edited it and have investigated doing the word yourself in After Effects, but would rather get someone to do the job in 3D), you quite possibly will get some charitable expert to give you a good deal and do a great job. As with anything, make sure you check out showreels of anyone that you look at doing the work, and also make sure you get some form of a quote as to what it will cost (again just to make sure you’re getting a good quality artist and that you won’t get burnt at the end of the day).
Goodluck and let me know how you go!!

Cheers,

andrew

🙂

[Kwanku]

Thanks Andrew.

For the tracking of the eyes. Is there a better program that FCP to do this?

[Andrew Shanks]

If you have After Effects already (which I’m assuming you have) the tracker in the pro version is actually pretty darn good, …but yeah, in your situation its more about roto work, cutting out the eyes (making animated matte shapes that follow the eyes opening and closing, squinting, leering, etc). I haven’t used FCP in ages, and never have used it for fx work (just prefer AE, Combustion, Shake, etc when it comes to doing comping), so can’t comment on its roto-splines (I’m picking it has those and that is what you used to make the mattes?). AE6.5 has okay matte splines, but there are better options around (such as the old favorite “Commotion”, new AE plugin “silohette roto”, and “curious gfx”), …where AE is a bit weak in relation to the other programs I’ve listed is that it lacks support for applying tracking data to the matte shapes (those other programs allow you to track and then apply the data not just to the whole mask shape, but to individual or collections of points, …this can help cut down on your roto time). Adobe has bought the Curious Gfx technologies to integrate into After Effects, …so I am assuming that if they’ve had time to build that code into AE7, that we’ll have better roto tools when its released (hopefully in the next month or so). I have a feeling that with NAB post in NY happening this coming week, that Adobe will use it to properly launch After Effects 7, …so yeah, see what happens this week.
But apart from using software that allows applying tracking data to matte shapes, theres no other way to speed up the process, …just a lot of frame by frame stuff as you will have already found out in FCP. One suggestion is to watch the creatures movements, …if there is motion blur as it moves, keyframe animate the mask’s ‘feathering’ (you may have to also animate the matte, expanding it a little to compensate for the feathering), …this will just make sure the look is more natural (otherwise you’ll have hard, unchanging edges around the black eyes, when the rest of the creature is blurred, …a quick tell that its a post produced effect).

I hope thats of some use. Let me know how you go!

Cheers,

andrew

🙂