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Editing software research
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[Dan Turner] “by being most proficient in the dominant editing software.”
It’s really not that difficult to become proficient in more than one NLE. I’ve done it and I’m old and busted. 😉 In fact, these days you absolutely should do that. They’re all relatively inexpensive to either buy or rent, and most of them offer free trials for long enough to learn them if you apply yourself. IMO, If you want to work in the “future”, you’ll need to know all the main (Avid, Adobe, Apple) tools.
Also, FCP X is the best. 😀 …. kidding!, it’s Lightworks… umm, I mean Hit Film… crap!, I meant Sony Catalyst!
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~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~”It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools.”~
~”The function you just attempted is not yet implemented”~ -
[Charlie Austin] “I’ve done it and I’m old and busted. ;-)”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-uagjJQ9k&app=desktop
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[Dan Turner] “To clarify one point. “Industry” was to mean the film and television industry at large. Both Hollywood/network and Indie.”
‘Hollywood’ films and scripted, ‘network’ TV shows are by and large done on Avid. Reality TV shows are also done on Avid 9 times out of 10. The lower down the pyramid you go the less you see Avid used so only knowing Avid probably isn’t the best idea. Keep in mind that the film industries in places like Louisiana, Georgia, Toronto, Vancouver, New Mexico, etc., are extensions of Hollywood so the same tendencies apply (though I think most of the film work in those places is production and post either ends up in LA or NYC).
Based on job postings I’ve seen that are mainly from LA and NYC (both scripted and unscripted) I’d say Avid is the most requested, Premiere Pro is a growing number two, FCP 7 is a falling number 3 and FCP X is a growing number 4. Asking people that don’t already know FCP 7 to learn it now is a bit of a waste of time, IMO, so I would tell them to have working knowledge of Avid, Premiere Pro and FCP X because you never know where you are going to end up (especially if you are just coming out of school).
[Dan Turner] “My research is to help film students who graduate. Trying to give them a sense of which skill set is best to have, by being most proficient in the dominant editing software.”
Off the top of my head here are some things I’d tell students before telling them which NLE to focus on:
1. Work/volunteer at post facilities so you can learn how things work in the ‘real world’ as opposed to how you made things work for class projects and homemade movies.
2. Have a 10yr plan with short, medium and long term goals (ex. 2yrs out, 5yrs out and 10yrs out). Anyone expecting to go to a major market and work on major projects as an editor right out of school is delusion, and w/o a plan you can spend years spinning your wheels or unknowing head in a direction that isn’t where you want to end up.
3. It’s a never ending grind that will chew up the majority of people and spit them out so be tenacious, patient, and mentally prepared to have more failures than successes. The people that ‘make it’ are the survivors, not necessary the best or most talented. And by never ending I mean never ending. I know people that have primetime network credits and have been working in LA since the 80’s and they still hit dry spells every now and then.
4. Be financially prepared too. If you don’t have at least 8 months of living expenses (rent, car, food, phone, etc.,.) don’t move to the big city. Once you are in the big city keep at least 8-12 months of living expenses in the bank at all times. Places like LA and NYC are expensive and running out of cash is a surefire way to derail your career goals.
5. Have fun and just because you will most likely fail doesn’t mean you shouldn’t give it a shot anyway. “Because it’s there” doesn’t just apply to Mt. Everest.
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[Robin S. Kurz] “Only in L.A., without a doubt.”
Only if you think NYC is part of LA.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin\’ attached to nothin\’
\”Deciding the spine is the process of editing\” F. Bieberkopf -
[Herb Sevush] “Only if you think NYC is part of LA.”
Wow. That’s almost gets us to the 2% overall mark! Just not quite.
But yeah, as we all know, the only relevant and existing market is of course the U.S. one. Gotta stop forgetting that.
– RK
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Yeah I have a good editor friend who started from scratch so to speak working for many years first as an editorial intern, later as an assistant and finally a pretty well respected and paid union Avid network TV editor in L.A..
Along the whole way, she worked her tail off night and day, was super talented and super dedicated. And it took her probably 10 years to get to a place of making a comfortable living at editing.
So yeah I would focus less on learning which keys do what in which app and more on the storytelling skills. Have them shoot stuff and put it together so they understand what’s involved. Have them learn to be great assistant editors because that’s the entry point for the profession.
And also be realistic that if they don’t absolutely love editing to the core of their souls they shouldn’t waste their time going to Hollywood/NYC. Because there are just too many others who live sleep and breathe it competing for the same jobs.
That said, there’s plenty of lower profile gigs in the corporate/local broadcast/media departments etc. Where you can make a decent living without killing yourself carrying someone’s coffee for 5 years just to get your foot in the door. Also a lot of us on this very forum make a living as shooter/editor services for hire- be it event videography, commercials, etc.
So it really depends what a student wants to do. I’d start out with storytelling skills. Learning Avid/Premiere/FCPX are certainly fine but you can go through the basics of any of them in a week. The rest is luck, perseverance and talent.
Noah
FCPWORKS – FCPX Workflow
FCP Exchange – FCPX Workshops -
[Noah Kadner] “So yeah I would focus less on learning which keys do what in which app and more on the storytelling skills.”
Exactly. A shi**ty commercial concept or movie script cannot be fixed by using a certain NLE. Avid always touts that “all the best movies are cut on Avid…”. What about the real terrible movies? Cut on something else? Nope. Concept is king. The nuance and rhythm of storytelling rules. The NLE is secondary.
[Noah Kadner] “Have them shoot stuff and put it together so they understand what’s involved.”
and do it with an iPhone and iMovie to take the “best stuff” argument out of the picture.
Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter -
Ultimately it comes down to what the intent of the course is. If you are trying to make your students employable when they get out of school within your surrounding area, then you need to teach the dominant tool used by post folks in your area. For example, I’m in Central Florida and in that case it would be Premiere Pro. Concepts are important, but hands on knowledge is also important.
OTOH – if you are trying to make them useful in the greater film/TV/video industry (i.e. it’s general film program), then it will be a while before they are entrusted with cutting anyone’s stuff. Therefore, concepts, and in general, end-to-end workflow, are more important than actual software manipulation.
If you teach the concepts around track-style editing, then Premiere is a viable teaching template for nearly everything else – Avid, Resolve, FCP7, Edius, Lightworks, etc. If you only teach them FCPX, then they are good on editing concepts, but will be at a loss if their first task is to work with a track-style editor.
In an ideal world, you should teach at least two of these and I would suggest these be FCPX and Premiere Pro.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
LA New York Network scripted shows – still primarily avid — I work at ABC News and they’re still using AVID for broadcast news programs but dipping a toe in Adobe and FCP X for field work with one man band producer/ shooter / reporters
Premiere’s making inroads in “Hollywood” as evidenced by scores of films cut on that NLE at Sundance this year — primarily because it’s an easy switch for FCP 7 editors – in fact you can set up Premiere to act almost identically to FCP 7 down to the keyboard shortcuts..
I know Voice of America has switched most of their aging FCP 7 seats to Premiere (I helped train some of the editors there)
FCP X is an easy decision for corporations and editors not necessarily coming from another NLE……harder for legacy editors to wrap their noggins around Apple’s new way of doing things and a frustrating (for legacy editors) lack of tracks for mixing (it can be done with roles but it’s a bit of a Texas two step compared to the straight forward it’s right in front of you way other NLE’s do this)
All in all I use them all…..prefer Premiere…but occasionally need Motion and FCP X to do something …and AVID when a client has a project already cut on that NLE —
Frankly students need to know them all today — if they’re heading to Feature work — AVID and Premiere seem to be the dominant players.
Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852 -
And don’t forget live TV where people are using EVS and others…
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