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Editing scenario
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[Lance Bachelder] “The LOCK and GROUP features would be awesome to have in FCPX and ease the pain of not having actual tracks. For instance once you have your music edited you can then LOCK it in place and cut away with or without the magnetic timeline – this makes it easy to cut to music similar to locking a track in FCP7.”
You already have grouping with compound clips, it sounds like you’re asking for grouping more like Premiere Pro’s, where the group of clips doesn’t get nested, yes? I agree that would be useful in FCPX.
As far as locking in place, that brings up the question of what place to lock to.
I guess you could derive relative sync relationships between connected clips and lock them relative to one another; then slide clip connection points as any changes are made in the primary.
I think that would do what you’re asking for but it seems like it breaks the notion that connected clip relationships to the primary have any real meaning. At that point it’s also fighting the notion of relative time as defined by the single primary. Locking is easy with absolute, external time as defined by tracks but it starts getting weird when time is relative.
I find these questions really interesting and am curious what the solutions are in FCPX. This thread is a great example of the kind of real-world problems that I don’t think the FCPX engineers and UI designers thought about when they designed the FCPX timeline. Maybe it’ll all be fixed 10.0.5.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
twitter.com/dhl -
[Bret Williams] “When hey demoed x at he super meet, Randy ( the designer) didn’t mix broll in the primary. So they obviously weren’t thinking that way.”
It’s worth mentioning that connected clips in iMovie (yes, they are the same thing) are called Cutaways which I think shows that indeed you are right and that, in Apples’ mind at least, B-roll is “meant” to be added as connected clips.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
At what point will there be a unanimous call of ‘yep, trackless was a mistake’.
Personally i think there’s nothing wrong with trying stuff and even less wrong with going ‘ok, a circle is the correct shape for a wheel.’
Sure FC10 has elements of power and oooh and aaah, but ultimately wasn’t it designed on Randy’s ideas of how to cut his home movies? Apple are so far down the line of producer high quality tech that I don’t think they could produce a bit of consumer hardware that wasn’t powerful… but do you/we/anyone actually think Apple contemplate anything they do with the wants/needs of the minority of ‘Pros’ and the diversity and demands of ‘Pro’ ways of working/needing to work (as with this case)?
It seems every time someone says ‘Apple are a consumer company now that make toys for the middle classes’ they get shouted down with examples of tech this and spec that, but, Apple are a consumer company now that make toys for the middle classes. And that is what this software reflects. They can try and crowbar in ‘Pro’ features/requests/needs all they want, but at its heart, this is a piece of consumer software where ‘cool’ was more important than ‘practical application’… which is, pretty much, Apple’s modus operandi these days.
I think if everyone just acknowledge this and had a group hug, we’d all run a far lower risk of developing ulcers.
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[David Lawrence] “This thread is a great example of the kind of real-world problems that I don’t think the FCPX engineers and UI designers thought about when they designed the FCPX timeline.”
I think what’s interesting is that Oliver is describing a type of editing that some of us are very familiar with which is intrinsically very fiddly.
I have noticed that the editors who are most happy with FCPX tend to be those who work in documentary or corporate where (and this is not at all suggesting the work is any less “creative” or demanding) these kind of complexity issues don’t have to be faced to anything like the same degree.
Simon Ubsdell
http://www.tokyo-uk.com -
“If I’m cutting to a music track I always attach this to a gap clip at the start of the edit, in FCP7 I would always put this on track 3 & 4.”
Same here. I’ve done quite a few of these now in X and that seems to work best. I put in a generator at the start ( white black etc) and attach the music to that. Then most of the stuff goes in the primary.
For cutting projects like this X can be a real time saver. Being able to reject material the client doesn’t like is very useful. And being able to range a section of music and with one drag of the mouse fade it down is great.
Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor -
[Jules bowman] “They can try and crowbar in ‘Pro’ features/requests/needs all they want, but at its heart, this is a piece of consumer software where ‘cool’ was more important than ‘practical application’… which is, pretty much, Apple’s modus operandi these days.”
So what isn’t “Pro” (here we go again) about it?
What “Pro” things can’t I do in FCPX that I can in other NLE’s?
Steve Connor
“FCPX Professional”
Adrenalin Television -
[Simon Ubsdell] “I have noticed that the editors who are most happy with FCPX tend to be those who work in documentary or corporate where (and this is not at all suggesting the work is any less “creative” or demanding) these kind of complexity issues don’t have to be faced to anything like the same degree.
“Oliver is actually talking about a corporate video, it’s also a little patronising to suggest that corporate videos don’t have the same complexity as broadcast. In my 20 years of experience they are often MORE complex.
Steve Connor
“FCPX Professional”
Adrenalin Television -
I actually think editing nightmares like this is where X can shine.
What I have found that works best for me is to connect my music bed first to an empty primary storyline. This will create a gap clip the length of my music bed. Now I would find my select sound bites and overwrite (d) to my primary storyline.
After I have my selected sound bites in, I can then connect the Broll. I like to create another story for my Broll, this way I can just move the whole thing as needed, and trim, ripple, roll. A useful feature I found is toggle storyline mode (g). After connecting your first clip, the next clip you drag from the browser to the timeline, if you hold G and place the clip next to your previous connected clip it will create a secondary story line for you
Another reason for placing it in the secondary story lines is the ability to change the connection point (command + option + click) for all when needed. I use the connection point almost like a lock track. I can move the connection points of my music bed and secondary stories (Broll) to the same gap clip in the primary, and that way they stay synced and don’t move around on me when I trim, ripple, roll the sound bites in the primary.
When the sound bites need to be moved to another location, the position (p) tool is great. Also replacing them is easy with overwrite without effecting any of my already synced broll edits to the music.
I have grown to realize that the position tool is very useful, and I use it for almost all timeline editing now.
I have also come to like not having tracks. Instead of having to scroll to see my audio track(s) and how to line up my edits. I can now just bring the audio to the top and view it there while I edit my Secondary stories.
I do wish that I could choose what story lines a connected clip could be attached to, instead of just the primary.
Just my 2..
sz
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Yes I’m talking about grouping – not nesting or making a compound clip. Vegas has had this for over 10 years and I use it all the time – Adobe just added this to CS6. Additionally in Vegas you can select a cup or group of clips and ungroup them or maker a smaller group. It’ also quick to highlight the group and ungroup when no longer needed.
As far as locking clips in place I use this as a temperory thing when I’, working on a particular section of a cut or when sound designing – I’ll often lock picture and dialog then begin sound design etc.
These are simple features to ad to the right-click menu and just give Editors another option – no one is required to use them.
Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Irvine, California -
[Jules bowman] “At what point will there be a unanimous call of ‘yep, trackless was a mistake’.
Personally i think there’s nothing wrong with trying stuff and even less wrong with going ‘ok, a circle is the correct shape for a wheel.’
“Part of it is that for a number of people, its not a mistake. It really does offer a faster way for them to do what they do. That’s certainly not the case for me. I’m very rhythm oriented, I do a lot of complicated sound work, and precision timing is essential. Tracks are clearly he best choice for me. But I also have to acknowledge that there are a large number of people for whom the timeline is not the heartbeat of the piece.
[Jules bowman] ” but ultimately wasn’t it designed on Randy’s ideas of how to cut his home movies?”
That might be a little harsh, but after watching his Antarctica jaunt, I have to say the thought has occurred to me. It also occurred to me that X seems to be very photographer friendly.
[Jules bowman] “Apple are a consumer company now that make toys for the middle classes.”
But they is great toys!
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