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Editing in HD 1080 – render quirks, crashing, etc.
My extremely long render times, render quirk workarounds, and frequent crashing has just reached a new level of crazy and I’ve tried what similar postings suggest with no avail.
I’m working on a 90min documentary – all footage is 1080p30, some graphics are at 25fps in various sizes, and there are many stills some of which are incredibly large. I completed a painstaking export of a 20 minute segment, which took ages to render properly.
Now I’m embarking on a short 2 minute promo and it’s time to find a solution or workaround to the increasing list of quirks:
– simple text created in FCP as placeholders (in a brand new sequence on V1 with nothing else under or over it) need to be rendered (this is the new one that just pushed me over the edge)
– almost everything needs to be rendered, including footage whose properties match the sequence perfectly
– graphics created in AfterEffects with the EXACT same settings as the sequence doesn’t produce a red “render needed” bar, but DOES NOT PLAY unless rendered by putting a BLANK text over it to trick FCP into rendering the graphic.
– what I’ve come to call “render lags” or playing back what looks like old render files associated with that clip in the sequence even though the edit has changed or that clip is no longer anywhere near that section of the sequence (workaround is again, putting a BLANK text over it to trick FCP into re-rendering the section – I SO hate doing this)
– up to 20 crashes a day triggered by: opening certain stills (likely just too big, but still crashes when smaller versions of same still is imported); scrolling too fast along a sequence as it tries to create thumbnails of the clips in the timeline; letting the program sit still for more than 15 minutes; and generally working too fast (I edit using mostly keystrokes and I have to slow my pace to let the lag catch up to my keystroke commands).I’m completely up to date with all updates.
There are minimal applications installed, and I don’t have the internet in use while editing.
I’ve tried trashing preferences.
I’ve tried creating a new project and then bringing in the bins – with no improvement.
I’ve tried creating a new project and then bringing in only the media I intend to use in the promo – with no improvement.
There is plenty of free space on both my operating drive and the external RAID.
There is NOT excessive volumes of footage (as is the case with some documentaries).
There are NOT too many sequences in the project (5 total right now or 1 in the new test projects).FCP 6.0.2
OSX 10.5.1
2×3 GHz Quad
8GB memory
1.1 TB SATAMAX external media RAIDThis is not the first project I’ve worked on with similar issues. Any project that I’ve edited in HD resolution rather than working the traditional “offline/online” workflow has had these issues. All the technical elements SEEM to be in place and I have no solid reason to tell my clients NOT to work in full resolution other than “It just seems like FCP can’t handle it no matter how great your computer is.” I’d like to think that’s not the case so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me with any suggestions or insights. I’ve tried to cover the basics but PLEASE feel free to ask more questions if anything is unclear or you know of potential other factors that might play in this headache.
THANKS!
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6 Replies
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After trashing the FCP User Data again the simple text needing to be rendered issue is fixed. Whew, one down.
Would still greatly appreciate help on the rest, or hear from anyone who’s successfully returned a project/system from similar dysfunction to full workability!
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[Kimberly White] “I’m completely up to date with all updates.
“[Kimberly White] “FCP 6.0.2
OSX 10.5.1
2×3 GHz Quad
8GB memory
1.1 TB SATAMAX external media RAID “Well, you’re NOT up to date. The current FCP is 6.0.3 and OS X 10.5.2.
[Kimberly White] “all footage is 1080p30, some graphics are at 25fps in various sizes, and there are many stills some of which are incredibly large. “
Are all the stills RGB color space? Why are some graphics at 25fps? Just how big are these stills?
1080p30 what? HDV? Uncompressed? ProRes? XDCAM?
It could be bad RAM. Maybe take out all the 3rd party RAM and go back to the stock Apple RAM to see if the problems persist.
Your system sounds particularly strange. I don’t know if online help is what you need? Might be best to hire a local FCP tech to trouble shoot.
CHL
Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Video Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Trainer
http://www.chiholee.com -
[Kimberly White] ”
– simple text created in FCP as placeholders (in a brand new sequence on V1 with nothing else under or over it) need to be rendered (this is the new one that just pushed me over the edge)”first, is this at 29.97 or 30.0 for a time base ( asking do to the 25fps content)
since you do not say,
in a uncompressed or HDV timeline Yes you would have to render.“graphics created in AfterEffects with the EXACT same settings as the sequence doesn’t produce a red “render needed” bar, but DOES NOT PLAY unless rendered by putting a BLANK text over it to trick FCP into rendering the graphic. “
your settings are screwed up – you need to change your rendering settings in FCP, you are relying on the RT and you are needing to force the renders BECAUSE of these settings.
Go to the Seq> Render and check ALL of the color versions.“what I’ve come to call “render lags” or playing back what looks like old render files associated with that clip in the sequence even though the edit has changed or that clip is no longer anywhere near that section “
OK – this one is you being lazy it is nothing but operator error-YOU MUST UNIQUELY NAME YOUR SEQ’s– if every SEQ you create is named by FCP – you media is looking for a different older version of SEQ 1 because according to the computer it is the HAS NOT CHANGED.
“up to 20 crashes a day triggered by: opening certain stills (likely just too big, but still crashes when smaller versions of same still is imported)”
Change the Name of the lower rez still, – FCP cannot see images larger than 4000px across and it really does not like CMYK print graphics.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD -
Thank you for your response.
My editing timebase is 29.97 (the few graphics at 25 are temp until we get the originals and convert them properly).
Sorry for leaving it out – my sequences are 1080p30 HDV.
“simple text created in FCP as placeholders need to be rendered”
When I trashed my FCP User Data it fixed the having to render simple text placeholder issue. I do not have to render them now.
“Go to the Seq> Render and check ALL of the color versions.”
When my AfterEffects outputs go into the sequence they do not come up with ANY level of render needed. Even with ALL levels (colors) of render checked they still do not render unless I do the crazy blank-text-trick-render.
“YOU MUST UNIQUELY NAME YOUR SEQ’s”I have never worked with a sequence named by FCP. They have unique names. In fact in this project there are two sequences I’m working with – a main one with the whole project in it, and a new one for the promo. There are only three other sequences in the project, for selects and such.
“what I’ve come to call “render lags” or playing back what looks like old render files associated with that clip in the sequence even though the edit has changed or that clip is no longer anywhere near that section”
This error of has occured to varying degrees on every feature length project I’ve cut using FCP. Usually much more so with documentaries and long or complex sequences. However, on the projects I’ve edited in HDV or ProRes this error occurs regularly and slows the process considerably.
“up to 20 crashes a day…”My stills are all in RGB color space. Stills are only one small part of when these crashes occur, and I’ve been able to isolate the problem stills for the most part. When I tried downrezing them I did rename them and imported them independently from the old clip (not just reconnect).
Most of the time crashes occur during what looks like RAM delay, though I’m working with 8GB of it (the max FCP is even capable of using I’m told?). It crashes if I work too fast using keystrokes. It crashes if I scroll across the timeline too fast as it tries to generate thumbnails for the clips in the sequence. It crashes if it sits still for over 15 minutes.
Any more questions/insights/suggestions?
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Ah, sorry I started writing my post before completing the updates and didn’t… update… it in the post. I’m now at 10.5.2 and FCP 6.0.3.
“Are all the stills RGB color space? Why are some graphics at 25fps? Just how big are these stills?”
Yes, all stills are RGB. The 25fps graphics are just temps that will be converted properly before final output. The stills are no larger than 4000px, and I’ve been able to isolate the troublesome ones fairly well.“1080p30 what? HDV? Uncompressed? ProRes? XDCAM?”
1080p30 HDV
“It could be bad RAM. Maybe take out all the 3rd party RAM and go back to the stock Apple RAM to see if the problems persist.”
It is stock Apple RAM.
“Your system sounds particularly strange. I don’t know if online help is what you need? Might be best to hire a local FCP tech to trouble shoot.”Know any good ones? I havn’t found an ‘in person’ or even over the phone FCP tech that knows more than or are even comparable to the folks on these forums. Still waiting for my call back from Apple’s “Tier 2” technical support after the first wave “escalated my case.”
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Kimberly,
What city are you in?
Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Video Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Trainer
http://www.chiholee.com
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