Editing DVCPro HD 59.94 / 23.98 together in same sequence?

[Shane Ross]

If this will be graded with COLOR, then you will need to convert the 59.94 footage to 23.98. Either with the DVCPRO HD Frame Rate Converter (remove pulldown), or Cinema Tools to remove pulldown, or Compressor Advanced Conversion…whichever does the better job.

Shane

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[Sean Oneil]

Copy and paste your sequence on to a new sequence that is set for 23.98 Varicam. Final Cut should recognize the duplicate frames and give you a clean 23.98 frame rate.

You could also try the Panasonic frame rate converter tool.

Sean

[Rose Glandfield]

Thanks for your replys

I’ve converted a couple of clips using DVCPRO HD Frame Rate Converter – seems to work fine, but there is a discrepancy in timecodes between the converted clip and the original, eg. one converted clip is 7 frames shorter then the original.

It’s a 30 minute clip so 7 frames doesn’t make a huge amount of difference but will this cause problems when trying to locate original source material in the conform?

Also, I’ve noticed that in sequence settings, your choice in terms of DVCPRO HD 720p compressor is limited to 50 / 60 fps, no 23.98 / 24 setting,and even though the editing timebase is set to 23.98, all the 23.98 footage currently in my timeline when you look at frame by frame is actually 59.94 with pulldown anyway!

This being the case, what is the advantage of converting the material before inserting into my sequence?

Hope this makes sense to you – only just makes sense to me!

Thanks

Rose

[Shane Ross]

[rose glandfield] “Also, I’ve noticed that in sequence settings, your choice in terms of DVCPRO HD 720p compressor is limited to 50 / 60 fps, no 23.98 / 24 setting,and even though the editing timebase is set to 23.98, all the 23.98 footage currently in my timeline when you look at frame by frame is actually 59.94 with pulldown anyway!”

The “compressor” is always going to be 720p60 or 720p50. That is the main format…it was designed as a tape format that runs at 59.94 and 50. You get 23.98 from that…by extracting frames, but the original compressor is still 720p60. Even if you shot on P2 at 24PN…it is just the format.

[rose glandfield] ”
This being the case, what is the advantage of converting the material before inserting into my sequence?”

You don’t need to render it at the end. You can mix 23.98 and 59.94 in the timeline (in FCP 6), but at the end you will need to render the 59.94 stuff to view it at full quality (currently shows up with dark green render bar).

Shane

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[Sean Oneil]

[rose glandfield] “Also, I’ve noticed that in sequence settings, your choice in terms of DVCPRO HD 720p compressor is limited to 50 / 60 fps, no 23.98”
You need to make one then. Duplicate a 60fps one, change the timebase to 23.98. When you paste your clips into this new timeline, do not have it automatically change settings to match the media (the new feature in FCP6).

[rose glandfield] “even though the editing timebase is set to 23.98, all the 23.98 footage currently in my timeline when you look at frame by frame is actually 59.94 with pulldown anyway! “

That’s not possible. If the timebase of a sequence is 23.98, you will only have 24 frames per second when you jog through frame by frame in the timeline. If you are looking at source timecode, the TC format will still be 60. But notice how numbers are being skipped as you jog through it.

I can’t say for certain whether or not FCP will choose the proper frames to remove (if not than this won’t work), but the video will without a doubt be 24 not 60.

Sean

[Rose Glandfield]

The timebase for the sequence is set to 23.98. It’s greyed out and wouldn’t allow me to change it even if I wanted to! Is that right?

You’re right about the timeline timecode – that’s what I was trying to say (not very clearly!) ie – that the source timecode of the 23.98 clips within the sequence are in a 60fps format with numbers skipped in 2/3 frame increments.

So that being the case, is it safe to edit the 59.94 footage straight into this timeline unconverted without causing any horrible repercussions when the conform happens?

[Sean Oneil]

[rose glandfield] “The timebase for the sequence is set to 23.98. It’s greyed out and wouldn’t allow me to change it even if I wanted to! Is that right? “

You can only change the timebase when the sequence is empty.

[rose glandfield] “So that being the case, is it safe to edit the 59.94 footage straight into this timeline unconverted without causing any horrible repercussions when the conform happens?”

What are you conforming to? Are you going to send an EDL to an online facility and have them re-capture it all? That’s not the way to do a DVCProHD workflow. That’s old-school. Total waste of time and money. You’ve already captured it at the highest quality possible.

[rose glandfield] “that the source timecode of the 23.98 clips within the sequence are in a 60fps format with numbers skipped in 2/3 frame “

This is normal behavoir. It’s a good thing. It lets you work with 23.98 while maintaining the original timecode format that exists on the tape.

Sean

[Rose Glandfield]

The reason I was planning to get it reconformed elsewhere is that it is a real hotchpotch of formats – Pal DVCam / NTSC Beta / DVCPro HD 24P / HDCam 25p

I don’t have the tape decks or appropriate video cards to capture all this media at full resolution at my disposal or to play out a full res, I’ve managed to do everything up to now through firewire.

I was imagining reconforming at a facility with all the equipment would be the best plan. Would a better idea perhaps be to transfer the project with media to a FCP set up in a facility, and just recapture the necessary material and play out from there?

[Sean Oneil]

[rose glandfield] “I was imagining reconforming at a facility with all the equipment would be the best plan. Would a better idea perhaps be to transfer the project with media to a FCP set up in a facility”

I think that would be a good idea. An EDL/Avid online is going to take longer and be more expensive. The online editor would have to re-create all your effects.

I didn’t realize you had so many tape formats and didn’t have the decks for them. Regardless, 23.98 footage needs to be edited at 23.98. Regardless of whether or not you will end up outputting a 60p tape or EDL.

As for your PAL footage. That can be a much more complicated situation. Are you capturing it at 25fps and slowing it down from 25 to 23.98 in Cinema Tools? Or did you have the tapes converted to NTSC? The latter option could cause problems.

Sean

[Rose Glandfield]

Ok, that’s what I’ll do….

[Sean ONeil] Regardless, 23.98 footage needs to be edited at 23.98. Regardless of whether or not you will end up outputting a 60p tape or EDL.”

The sequence has a timebase of 23.98, and the bulk of the footage is shot at that rate, the problematic stuff is the extra footage I’ve captured at 59.94 and the Pal / 25 P footage.

At the moment, I’ve just captured both the Pal and HDCam as DV Pal and am able to edit them straight into my sequence at that frame rate – do these and the 59.94 need converting before I transfer the project or will the frame rate be converted simply by dropping them into the sequence?

Sorry if I’m being a dense about this, just got timecodes and frame rates swimming around in my brain!

Thanks

Rose