DVD3… How best to add video clips…

[Edward Troxel]

[Steve Boleyn] “It is much faster as I only have to render the clips into MPEG one time”

What do you mean by this????

If you drop the whole thing in Vegas and render to MPEG2, DVDA should NOT have to “render again” unless the file is too large to fit. In that case, you rendered wrong in Vegas – i.e. YOU must manually set the bitrate to be appropriate for the length of your video.

My suggestion would be to go back to adding them all on the timeline in Vegas, set your chapter points, and then render to MPEG2 making sure you use the proper settings (I have a bitrate chart in Vol 1 #7 of my newsletter).

If you link multiple files in DVDA, there will always be a pause between them. The length of that pause will also vary by DVD player!

Edward Troxel

[Videocool]

Hey Ed… How did I know that you would be the one to respond… Ok… I was hoping.

[jeditdv] “Steve Boleyn] “It is much faster as I only have to render the clips into MPEG one time.”

What do you mean by this????

Sorry I wasn’t clear. It was 4am. I meant that I would render the AVI’s (in VEGAS) to MPEG/ac3 (using compliant bit rates of course) and then the MPEG clips would be used to assemble the DVD’s (either in VEGAS or DVDA).

I ran into two different issues.

1. In VEGAS the MPEG to MPEG process would rerender (probably causing recompression loss) and actually took longer than just rendering AVI’s to MPEG.

2. In DVDA the MPEG clips did not rerender (they were compliant), but adding the MPEG clips there caused a freeze frame at the end of each clip.

(a side note to jeditdv … thanks for your newsletters… they are a great source of VEGAS/DVDA info)

If you drop the whole thing in Vegas and render to MPEG2, DVDA should NOT have to “render again” unless the file is too large to fit. In that case, you rendered wrong in Vegas – i.e. YOU must manually set the bitrate to be appropriate for the length of your video.

Not a problem… see above.

My suggestion would be to go back to adding them all on the timeline in Vegas, set your chapter points, and then render to MPEG2

But that’s not what I wanted to hear… hmpfh. 😉

making sure you use the proper settings (I have a bitrate chart in Vol 1 #7 of my newsletter).

See thank you note above.

If you link multiple files in DVDA, there will always be a pause between them. The length of that pause will also vary by DVD player!

Yeah… I’ve kinda figured that out… I was just hoping for a little Creative Cow magic. Although I’ve used VEGAS for years I’ve always authored in REELDVD. But I’m quickly moving to DVDA 3.0. I’ll probably be back with a few more newbie questions.

On a side note… compressing the ac3 audio at 224 bits instead of 192 will get rid of that red highlight in the Optimize (audio) check screen. Musicians usually go with one step above what Dolby recommends anyhoo. Of course if you need the overhead to squeeze a big project onto a disc, 192 works just fine.

Thanks again,

Steve

Sony VX-1000, P4, AMD, AMD64 laptop,
VegasVideo, ReelDVD, DVFILM, Lightwave, Photoshop, 18 years Independent Production

[Edward Troxel]

I’m trying to avoid both recompression AND the pause with my suggestion:

Avoid Pause: The pause can be easily avoided by giving DVDA a single file instead of multiple files.

Avoid Recompression: Put the AVI files on the timeline and render to MPEG2 ONCE. From the above, though, it sounds like you’re rendering to MPEG2 multiple times? I don’t recommend that. Start back with the AVI files.

Edward Troxel

[Videocool]

[jeditdv] “I’m trying to avoid both recompression AND the pause with my suggestion:

Avoid Pause: The pause can be easily avoided by giving DVDA a single file instead of multiple files.

Avoid Recompression: Put the AVI files on the timeline and render to MPEG2 ONCE. From the above, though, it sounds like you’re rendering to MPEG2 multiple times? I don’t recommend that. Start back with the AVI files.”

Yes… you can avoid the pause by using a single file.

But… I was hoping to use multiple MPEG files either in VEGAS or DVDA. But that ain’t working.

No I do not want recompression. What I was hoping for (and have just about given up hope) was to render the clips as MPEG only one time and then use those clips as the DVD content. In DVDA that method causes a pause. In VEGAS using MPEG clips causes recompression.

The whole idea was to decrease the rendering time. If you can imagine, rendering the same 20 minute closing segment (used in about half of my DVD projects) from AVI to MPEG would save significant time when multiplied by 100 projects.

I have always used the work flow of assembling the avi clips in VEGAS and then dropping a single file into the authoring program. I just wanted to stop rendering the same avi clips over and over.

Thanks…

Steve

Sony VX-1000, P4, AMD, AMD64 laptop,
VegasVideo, ReelDVD, DVFILM, Lightwave, Photoshop, 18 years Independent Production

[Edward Troxel]

[Steve Boleyn] “No I do not want recompression. What I was hoping for (and have just about given up hope) was to render the clips as MPEG only one time and then use those clips as the DVD content. In DVDA that method causes a pause. In VEGAS using MPEG clips causes recompression.”

I am sayting to only render the clips as MPEG one time – just what you are asking for. DO NOT put the MPEG clips on the timeline in Vegas – ALWAYS use the AVI clips.

Sounds like you’re building a project in sections. Render each section to AVI. Once all sections are done, build a final project from the AVI files. Now render ONCE to MPEG2. This will give you as single MPEG2 file and you will have rendered to MPEG2 a grand total of ONE time.

Edward Troxel

[Videocool]

Hey Edward…

I know we are in total agreement, but the thread is great just for clarity’s sake.

[Steve Boleyn] “No I do not want recompression. What I was hoping for (and have just about given up hope of getting) was to render the clips as MPEG only one time and then use those clips as the DVD content. In DVDA that method causes a pause. In VEGAS using MPEG clips causes recompression and it is slower besides.”

[jeditdv]I am saying to only render the clips as MPEG one time – just what you are asking for. DO NOT put the MPEG clips on the timeline in Vegas – ALWAYS use the AVI clips.

Yep, that works. But it requires me to keep rendering the same avi clips over and over.

Sounds like you’re building a project in sections.

Well… Yes. If it were only one project it would not be much of an issue. What I am actually doing, is building 200 projects. (Each is unique.) Each project ranges in length from 15 to 120 minutes. Each project consists of an Introduction, a central body of Content consisting of 1 to 30 individual clips, and a Conclusion. Sometimes this production technique is referred to as making a donut.

The Introduction is always the same. The Content is drawn from 300 video clips of about 3 minutes in length. The Conclusion is selected from six different clips of 10 to 20 minutes. At present all of these clips are AVI. If it is going to videotape, I Edit, Print to Video, and Record. If it going to be into a DVD, I Edit, Render to MPEG/AC3, Author and Burn.

Render each section to AVI. Once all sections are done, build a final project from the AVI files. Now render ONCE to MPEG2. This will give you as single MPEG2 file and you will have rendered to MPEG2 a grand total of ONE time.

Yes, this is exactly my technique. Unfortunately, it requires me to render some of the Same AVI clips hundreds of times. The Introduction and Conclusion for instance; not to mention 50 or 60 other clips that get used over and over.

I don’t see anyway to improve this workflow, without compromising playback (e.g., the pauses between clips). So I fear we are beating a dead camel. It’s a lot of fun, but I’m afraid it will begin to stink… not what I want.

Anyway, thanks for helping me air this difficulty…

Steve

(Actually, I don’t know why I’m whining… It is just about as fast to Edit, Author, and Burn a DVD-R, as it is to Edit, Print to Video, and Record a realtime tape. Assuming you are using VEGAS + DVDA of course.)

Sony VX-1000 and others, P4 3gHz,
3000 Gigabytes Online(Not Enough), AMD64 laptop, Vegas+DVD-Architect, ReelDVD, DVFILM, Lightwave, Photoshop, Independent Production Since 1985

[Alan Roth]

….What about just being able to drop an entire vegas project into a dvda project rather than first rendering it?…

i.e.
You could save a step if next DVDA upgrade has ability like vegas 6 where you can drop a whole “vegas project” onto the timeline… drop a vegas project into dvda and let it do the encoding without the interim step of vegas doing any rendering/encoding…
dvda would likely need to use vegas core application (so it would need to be purchased/installed on your system) but you could save a step…. drop the vegas project into dvda then go to sleep and wake up to a burned dvd!

[Videocool]

[alan278] “….What about just being able to drop an entire vegas project into a dvda project rather than first rendering it?…

i.e.
You could save a step if next DVDA upgrade has ability like vegas 6 where you can drop a whole “vegas project” onto the timeline… drop a vegas project into dvda and let it do the encoding without the interim step of vegas doing any rendering/encoding…
dvda would likely need to use vegas core application (so it would need to be purchased/installed on your system) but you could save a step…. drop the vegas project into dvda then go to sleep and wake up to a burned dvd!”

Hey Alan…

Don’t wait… do it today. If your project is completed AVI’s as mine are, you can assemble them in DVDA. You don’t get the dissolves, and you do get a pause. But DVDA will encode the AVI’s for you.

If your project consists of only one huge AVI, as many of mine do, you can take it straight into DVDA and it will encode, and use the embedded markers as chapter points. Fantastic for simple single movie chapter driven production. No pauses, plays great, total simplicity.

At present I still prefer to Render the MPEG/AC3’s in VEGAS 6, as it gives me more tweaking power than DVDA. It also seems to be a bit faster (don’t know why that is, considering that DVDA is probably using the Mainconcept defaults).

And the whole process is so fast now, “I don’t have time to bleed” (uh, sleep).

Thanks,

(Looking forward to the next upgrade, too.)

Steve

Sony VX-1000 and others, P4 3gHz,
3000 Gigabytes Online(Not Enough), AMD64 laptop, Vegas+DVD-Architect, ReelDVD, DVFILM, Lightwave, Photoshop, Independent Production Since 1985

[Richard Klimesh]

“I’ve tried this… Render the .avi clips as MPEG/ac3 and add to DVD3… This requires a Menu-based structure… not a problem… but the clips freeze momentarily before moving onto the next clip.”

Steve –
I’ve eliminated the pause between files by making the last half second of one file the same still scene (or fade to black or pattern or whatever) as the first half second of the following file. Then they play straight through with no blip. I don’t know if you can design all the clips in your project to utilize this trick but if you could then you could render them all to MPEG in Vegas before bringing them to DVDA. That way the clips you use repeatedly would only have to be rendered once.

Also, since your opening and closing are always the same, at least render those to MPEG from Vegas before dropping them into DVDA.

[Videocool]

[klimvid] “I’ve eliminated the pause between files by making the last half second of one file the same still scene (or fade to black or pattern or whatever) as the first half second of the following file. Then they play straight through with no blip. I don’t know if you can design all the clips in your project to utilize this trick but if you could then you could render them all to MPEG in Vegas before bringing them to DVDA. That way the clips you use repeatedly would only have to be rendered once.

Also, since your opening and closing are always the same, at least render those to MPEG from Vegas before dropping them into DVDA.”

Thank you…

Two most excellent ideas.

I’ve been tied up all day with another project, hence my time to spend on the COW… extremely rare these days.

I will try this technique as soon as possible. Do you think or has your experience been that not having a continuous clip, would cause playback problems for clients? (I have trained many of my clients to buy DVD-R compatible decks, but those are usually not the ones that you hear from, it is just the people that buy the cheapest players that will complain the loudest.)

I should probably start a new thread. I’m interested in ideas for increasing compatibility, and decreasing playback problems.

I’ll start a new post.

Thanks,

Steve

Sony VX-1000 and others, P4 3gHz,
3000 Gigabytes Online(Not Enough), AMD64 laptop, Vegas+DVD-Architect, ReelDVD, DVFILM, Lightwave, Photoshop, Independent Production Since 1985