DVD Auhtoring error: Layer break not on cell boundary

[Deirdre O’lavery]

Correction:

“I’m wondering if this is because I burned the image as an ISO file from Vegas to my hard drive”

should read:

“I’m wondering if this is because I burned the image as an ISO file from DVD Architect 5 to my hard drive”

[Stephen Mann]

I’ve never worked with DVD-9, or replication shops for that matter, but I may know the answer.

What the replicator calls a cell may be a GOP that starts with an i-frame. Vegas lets you create an MPEG file with markers at any frame.

I am pretty sure that your Layer Break also has to be at an i-frame.

Just a thought. In Vegas pro there is an option to create an iframe at the marker point when rendering to an MPEG file.

Hope this helps….

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com

[Deirdre O’lavery]

Steve,

Thanks for your input – it’s very much appreciated.

I think I may have an idea of what happened. From what I’ve read, Nero doesn’t work with DL discs very well and chooses it’s own layer-break which isn’t always in compliance with authoring standards.

Usually I would use DVD Architect to burn the disc, but my main machine was in use and so I burned the ISO over the network on another system using Nero.

What I’m probably going to start doing is sending them authored discs as a DDP image with one folder for each layer, and either burn them on 2 separate DVD5s or on a USB drive.

The Nero/Layer issue may not be the problem, but right now it makes the most sense — so the issue may not have anything to do with DVDA.

If anyone has any other suggestions or excperience with this error, that would be great.

Thanks!
~Deirdre

[Roger Crunden]

Hello Stephen
My problem is a little different but as you seem to know your stuff I’d be grateful for your help please.Programme 1HR 40 MINS long HD produced in Vegas Pro 9. Made 14 chapter points and Rendered for Architect. In Architect I made a 2 page menu and then inserted a dual layer DVD. It processed and compressed for over 6 hours and then it asked for a marker to change layer. Within architect I inserted the additional marker at the point asked and then continued with making the disc. On completion the DVD player cannot play anything after the layer marker point. What do I need to do differently please?

Roger

[Stephen Mann]

I’ve never made a dual layer DVD, so I won’t be much help here.

OTOH, 1:40 is not too big for a single layer DVD – why not use that?

Steve Mann
MannMade Digital Video
http://www.mmdv.com

[Mike Kujbida]

Steve is right about using a single layer disc.
I shot a 2.5 hr. play last spring that went on a single layer DVD and it looked and sounded great.
The GIGO (garbage in, garbage out) rule applies so make sure that your source footage is as clean as it can be.
A 2-pass render from Vegas will help a lot in maintaining the final quality.

[Deirdre O’lavery]

Robert,

have you been able to check the dual layer disc on more than one DVD player? Some DVD players have a hard time with DVDRs and will not play correctly. Is this a stand-alone player, or like a DVD drive?

When you were prompted for the layer break, did it give you an option to choose a layer break point (either manually or automatically), or did it tell you that you needed to insert a layer break marker between a certain timecode range?

If you weren’t aware, placing a new marker for a layer break will create a new ‘chapter’ point on the disc, so instead of having 14 chapters, you will now have 15. That may not be an issue, and your menus can display only the chapter points you want to have visible, but if you cycle through the chapter points while playing the main movie, it will read the layer break point as a chapter.

Single layers are large enough for 1 hour and 40 minutes, but if you’re looking for optimal quality, I would say a dual layer is best. Especially for HD footage, since the footage is converted to standard definition for the DVD and you want the best possible quality.

On a single layer disc, a show about 60-90 minutes will look pretty good, but shows longer than 90 minutes will noticeably degrade. Probably not as much with just a 100 minute show, but I’ve had 110-120 minute shows on single layers and the quality loss from compression is pretty noticeable.

Still, I would go with single layer as the other 2 have recommended if you aren’t able to solve the issue, unless of course this is for a client who is requesting dual layer.

Cheers,
Deirdre

[Deirdre O’lavery]

Correction: I meant to address the above to ‘Roger’ not ‘Robert’.

Sorry!

“All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people”

~My Man Godfrey

[Roger Crunden]

Dear Deirdre (and Steve)

Thank you for your comments. I have started down the single layer path and it is processing at the moment. My Sony HXD970 DVD player/recorder is only 3 years old and I have previously played home made dual layer discs without problem but they were made with different software on a different computer. On my previous system it was not necessary for me to put in a chapter point to change layer and my menus made in Ulead were not affected. It seems that Architect is rather ‘backwards’ by comparison? Not being too bright I find it challenging enough to do just the basics.

Kind regards, Roger

Roger

[Deirdre O’lavery]

Hi Roger~

I used to use ULEAD years ago. My issues with it was it’s compression engine and that it was limited in navigation options. Even with 2-pass encoding, DVD5s (single layer) still never turned out great for movies that were 90 minutes and up. In fact, single layers made in DVDA look far better (in my humble opinion) than those auhtored in ULEAD.

DVDA is a bit of a learning curve in comparison, but it is a more robust program allowing you to do things and add navigation that ULEAD wouldn’t allow. it also allows full control over your discs, chapter point links and chapter menu footage.

That said, “Stick with what works” is always a good argument, especially if ULEAD worked well for your needs or client needs (if you still have it available).

I believe for dual layer, ULEAD chooses the layer-break automatically. Some DVD Authorers prefer to specify when a layer will switch over (for instance, so it’s not in the middle of a scene in case there is a pause while the player switches from Layer 0 to Layer 1).

Have you recently changed the kind of media you have been using? For DL discs, I find that only Verbatim and Sony are the most reliable (and most expensive). Memorex and the new Kodak DLs are all totally unreliable and tend to end up as coasters — of which I have more than a few =(

Also, you may want to run the DVD through Isobuster (there is a freeware version) to check the disc for surface errors.

Cheers,
Deirdre

“All you need to start an asylum is an empty room and the right kind of people”

~My Man Godfrey