DVD Architect bundled with Sony Vegas Pro 9: Okay to use with Magix Vegas Pro 15 Edit?

[Graham Bernard]

iVegas?

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge

[John Rofrano]

[Graham Bernard] “iVegas?”

The audio capabilities would certainly be welcome because Final Cut Pro X doesn’t have audio buses which I miss a lot. It does have a nice concept of Roles where I can tag a clip as being Dialog, or Music, etc. and then apply FX to only the Dialog clips or render out the Dialog on one channel and the Music clips on another which makes it very easy to create stems to send to Logic Pro X or ProTools for further sweetening but I miss having audio buses with FX that clips get routed to and processed separately.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[Graham Bernard]

iTwixtor?
iMercalli?
iScripts?
iNeatVideo?
iMayhem?
iExcalibur?

What about all those enthusiastic Vegas Hobbits, eagerly beavering away to make snazzy utilities? Is there the equivalent of an SDK for you, “Rofrano-The-White” (viz Gandolph), to get your digital teeth into?

Look, the Apple model is both stunning and seriously wants me to get to my narrative. I’m convinced of that. And if I was starting again, then my head would most certainly be turned towards Apple.

I’ve worked with Vegas since 2002, and have trod the long and dusty road and I have been blessed to be part of the astonishing revolution that had provided much income for many startup video content creators that had neither the capital nor access via a workplace that had been investing much capital into kit. This I acknowledge.

* Grazie

Video Content Creator and Potter
PC 7 64-bit 16gb * Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz * 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 560 Ti
Cameras: Canon XF300 + PowerShot SX50HS Bridge

[John Rofrano]

[Graham Bernard] “iTwixtor? iMercalli? iScripts? iNeatVideo?…”

Actually, I have all of my old plug-ins (Mercalli, Neat Video, Boris FX, Red Giant, etc) on my Mac so I didn’t loose any of those and there are many more plug-ins for FCP X than Vegas Pro has, so no loss of creative plug-ins by moving. In fact, I have more choices now and some of them are outstanding like those from MotionVFX. This was a huge benefit in moving to the Mac.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[Tom Burgess]

PREFACE: Pardon my general lack of information, and lack of “historical sequence” regarding development of video related software and hardware.

1. I find no information regarding VEGAS Pro for Mac. Is there any indication of plans in the works? I don’t like switching/learning new software. I’m sure VEGAS Pro will always be two steps ahead of whatever I want to do, and VEGAS methods make sense to me. I’d like to stick with it regardless of hardware/OS.

2. I read up on the Hackintosh concept, and per your remarks above, John, the prospect is more trouble than it’s worth. Apple’s business model has always involved keeping a lock on EVERYTHING, so no one can operate (for long) outside restrictions that amount to an iron-fisted monopoly (if you ask me). It makes sense from a business standpoint, but is anathema to me. I’m deeply DIY and a big proponent of independent thinking.

Microsoft WIndows is problematic and arcane, but it gives people like me opportunities to make independent choices (to a point) about hardware and software that Mac users simply don’t enjoy. It also lowers the cost considerably. Of course, the simplicity of using the Mac (as you describe) offsets most of that…IF you can afford the machine. And the next machine.

Time, trouble and effort vs. Cash.
The eternal trade-off.

[John Rofrano]

[Tom Burgess] “I find no information regarding VEGAS Pro for Mac. “

That’s because there is no Vegas Pro for Mac and I highly doubt there will ever be one without a complete rewrite because Vegas Pro is deeply tied to proprietary Microsoft technology. Graham was just fooling around with me because I’ve been trying to convert him to a Mac user on the side. ????

[Tom Burgess] “I read up on the Hackintosh concept, and per your remarks above, John, the prospect is more trouble than it’s worth. “

Indeed it is. A big part of the beauty of owning a Mac is that the Apple developers are developing FCP X on the EXACT same hardware that you are. Same CPU, same GPU, no questions about what GPU worked best or anything like that. You are using the same hardware they designed the software for so why on earth would you want to use random PC hardware? It defeats the whole purpose of buying a Mac.

[Tom Burgess] “Apple’s business model has always involved keeping a lock on EVERYTHING, so no one can operate (for long) outside restrictions that amount to an iron-fisted monopoly (if you ask me). It makes sense from a business standpoint, but is anathema to me. I’m deeply DIY and a big proponent of independent thinking. “

There is a huge advantage in owning both the hardware and software. That’s why iOS will always be a better user experience than Android and why macOS will always be a better user experience than Windows. I use to think that the trackpad on a Mac was just like the trackpad on a Windows computer. Then I bought a Mac! They are NOTHING alike. Not even a little. TOTALLY different experience. I hate when I have to touch the trackpad on a friends Windows laptop because it is practically useless compared to the functionality on a Mac.

It also depends on what business you are in? Are you in business to design, build, and support computers? That doesn’t make me any money so I don’t waste time with that anymore. If you like fiddling with computers then by all means build your own and support it yourself. Buying a turnkey system doesn’t stunt my “independent thinking” because I don’t “think” about computers… I use them as tool to get stuff that counts done. If I feel the need to tinker around I boot up my Raspberry Pi. ????

[Tom Burgess] “Microsoft WIndows is problematic and arcane, but it gives people like me opportunities to make independent choices (to a point) about hardware and software that Mac users simply don’t enjoy.”

You assume that Windows users enjoy making those decisions. I see people come here and agonize over what CPU or GPU to buy that works best with Vegas Pro. They spend weeks researching it. If you enjoy that, it’s great. Don’t assume everyone does. (I do not)

You have to ask yourself, “What is your core competence?”. Mine is editing video. You want to take away my choices when editing video I will fight you to the bitter end. You want to take away my choice of what CPU or GPU to buy I could care less. Just give me a computer that performs well and I’m happy. What will my next computer be? An iMac Pro hands down. What GPU does it have? Who cares, it has the GPU that the Apple developers have optimized FCP X to use. As long as it performs well I don’t care.

[Tom Burgess] “It also lowers the cost considerably. “

Only if you decide to buy cheap parts and yes, that’s up to you. My Mac Pro’s use Xeon CPU’s and ECC memory. Yes, you can buy a consumer CPU and regular memory cheaper… but you won’t get the reliability of using better parts.

[Tom Burgess] “Of course, the simplicity of using the Mac (as you describe) offsets most of that…IF you can afford the machine. And the next machine.”

Mac hardware is not more expensive and has been proven many times. In fact, when it first came out, the The $10,000 Mac Pro was $2,000 CHEAPER than equivalent PC hardware. The Mac seems more expensive because it doesn’t use cheap parts but if you buy the same quality parts to make a PC, it will cost the same or more. Apple doesn’t really have a budget line so people on a budget always say that Macs are expensive but at the top end, they are very competitively priced with equivalent PC’s.

I’m editing on a 2010 Mac Pro 12-Core that I picked up on eBay several years ago for $2400. It’s a 7 year old computer now and it edits blazingly fast. Would you want to edit on a 7 year old PC? My son does all of his graphics design on my 2008 Mac Pro 8-core. That’s almost 10 years old and going strong. I read that IBM just moved a majority of it’s employees over to Mac’s because taking the total cost of ownership into account, Macs last longer and require less support than PC’s. These are not my claims, these are the IBM CIO’s claims. These documented facts are changing the way major corporations are viewing Macs as an investment.

The Mac isn’t for everyone. If you want to build your own computer you should probably stick with Windows. If you like picking parts and hoping they all work together then stick with PC’s. (I have built several PC’s and just because the specs match doesn’t mean the parts will work together… been there… got burned) But if you want to edit video right away instead of spending weeks agonizing over parts and then hours or days figuring out why your new iPhone footage won’t display properly in your PC NLE… get a Mac! lol 😀

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[Tom Burgess]

JOHN ROFRANO STRIKES AGAIN!

Man, you dedicated a LOT of time and hard-won expertise to answering my question. As always I truly appreciate it, and AS ALWAYS, your advice is DEAD ON. Every point you make is a gem, and brother, the next computer I own will be a Mac.

I do not enjoy, and have NEVER ENJOYED the gut-wrenching process of choosing components, assembling them and then the inevitable (seemingly endless) troubleshooting that has accompanied every PC I have built for myself. Trying to keep my head above water in terms of I.T. is a terrible use of my time and talents. Like you, I see these machines purely as tools, and my only interest in them is how they assist me in creative endeavor.

As stated earlier, I have no budget for a Mac at this time, but the details regarding your older Macs and your purchase of a used Mac are very encouraging. I would never consider buying a used PC, but thanks to your extremely helpful account, I will begin learning which used Mac model(s) would best serve my interests – and will then “launch the hunt” for a good used Macintosh.

IF you’d care to make an off-the-cuff recommendation (no research!) with regard to which Mac might suit my work and my budget, here’s what I do:

1. Multi-track audio recording: original songs
2. Painter/artist using traditional methods and materials
3. Digital graphics
4. Video production and editing
5. Photography: reference material for paintings
6. Photography: for print reproduction of finished paintings
7. Web design

At present I run an AMD 6-core processor with 16GB of RAM, so I guess a Mac along those lines would work.

I think most of my core AV software is both Windows and Mac compatible. It’ll take me a while to figure out how to make the switch to Mac, and my current PC is good for the foreseeable future. So spending $149 on Magix VEGAS Pro 15 Edit and investing in its learning curve probably still makes sense.

Thanks, John. Your advice is CONSISTENTLY OUTSTANDING, and that’s why I describe it as a much appreciated safety net.

[John Rofrano]

[Tom Burgess] “IF you’d care to make an off-the-cuff recommendation (no research!) with regard to which Mac might suit my work and my budget,”

I am very happy with my two Mac Pro towers. They have 4 HDD/SDD bays, 2 DVD bays (I put a Blu-ray burner in mine) and 4 slots. I added a USB 3.1 card, and eSATA card with SSD’s on it so they are just as fast as any modern computer.

The Mac Pro towers can be had at a great price. I did a quick search on eBay and found these:

• Apple Mac Pro 3.46GHz 12 Cores – 512GB SSD + 4TB HD – 64GB RAM – ATI Radeon 5770 (Price: US $2,299.00)
• Apple Mac Pro 3.33GHz 12 Core – 512GB SSD + 4TB HD – 64GB RAM – ATI Radeon 5770 (Price: US $1,999.00 or Best Offer)
• Mid 2012 Mac Pro | 3.33GHz 12-core | 64 GB | 480GB SSD + 2TB | ATI 5770 1GB (Price: US $1,699.00)
• Mac Pro 12-Core,2×2.66GHz,500GB SSD,16GB,2TB HD,1GB Video, Keybd & Trackpad 2 (Price: US $1,279.00)
• Mac Pro 2.93 GHz 12-Core (2010) (MC561LL/A) | 48GB 1TB | GOOD CONDITION (Current bid: US $590.00)
• Mac Pro 2.93 GHz 12-Core (2010) (MC561LL/A) | 32GB 500GB | SEE DESC (Current bid: US $570.00)

You don’t want anything older than a 2010 because the latest macOS High Sierra requires a Mac Pro Mid 2010 or newer. This is important because if you want to use the latest Final Cut Pro X and Motion, it often takes advantage of new graphics subsystems and requires the latest OS to run.

At a minimum you want one with an ATI Radeon HD 5770 Graphics card. If you can find one with the ATI Radeon HD 5870 Graphics Card even better (that was offered as an upgrade). The 5870 is twice (2x) the speed of 5770 so it is a big boost in performance. Both of my Mac Pro’s had the better ATI Radeon HD 5870 in them.

As with everything on eBay you want to be careful about who you buy from. Look at other things they are selling. Obviously check their ratings. I bought my 2008 Mac Pro 8-Core from a graphic artist who upgraded to a new 2013 Mac Pro. I bought my 2010 Mac Pro 12-Core from a company that buys IT equipment and refurbishes it and stands behind it. I had no problems with either of them.

If you don’t like shopping on eBay, I can HIGHLY recommend Other World Computing (OWC). I buy all of my accessories there. They refurbish Mac’s so you pay a little more but you get a warrantee and a solid computer.

From their Used Mac Pro page they have plenty to choose from. Here are the bottom prices for each of the Core configurations (4, 6, 8, 12):

• Apple Mac Pro 2010-2012 2.8GHz 4-Core, 8GB /1.0TB HD (starting at: US $1,049.00)
• Apple Mac Pro 2010-2012 2.66GHz 6-Core, 8GB /1.0TB HD (starting at: US $1,149.00)
• Apple Mac Pro 2010-2012 2.4GHz 8-Core, 16GB /1.0TB HD (starting at: US $1,599.00)
• Apple Mac Pro 2010-2012 2.66GHz 12-Core, 16GB /1.0TB HD (starting at: US $1,799.00)

A 12-Core Mac Pro for $1,799.00 from a reputable company that stands behind their sales is well worth it in my book.

Having said all that… the real beauties are the iMacs. You’re getting an absolutely gorgeous 27 inch display included in the deal. Check out their Used iMacs page.

• Apple iMac 27″ Quad-Core i7 3.4GHz, Thunderbolt, 8GB Memory | 1.0TB HD | SuperDrive (US $1,029.00)

Then there is the iMac Retina 5K. OMG, I went to the Apple Store to see one of these in person and the display has to be seen to be believed. It is 5K (not 4K but 5K) That means when you’re editing 4K video on the FCP X timeline, the Preview is a full 4K and the playback is buttery smooth! The display is breathtaking. Here is one fairly beefed up:

• Apple iMac 27″ Quad-Core i5, 3.5GHz with Retina 5K Display, 24GB | 1.0T SSDHD Fusion, Kb/Mouse New Cond. w/1 Year Apple Warranty ($1,599.00)

Considering you’re getting a 5K display with a computer for $1,599.00 that’s not a bad deal. Nothing else to buy.

OK, so now that I told you it was easy I probably made your head spin with all off the choices. LOL… ???? there are really only 2 choices. Get a Mac Pro tower and use your old display or get an iMac all-in-one… then just select how many cores and memory and the decision is done.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com

[Tom Burgess]

[John Rofrano] OK, so now that I told you it was easy I probably made your head spin with all off the choices. LOL…

Ha! I just read your post and yeah, my head is spinning, but in the right direction.

Later today I should have time to really study every sentence. At first glance I’m pleasantly surprised at the price of some of the Mac options you mention. I know NOTHING about Macintosh computers, so your combined posts amount to a much appreciated “short course” on the subject.

I’ll write more later. THANKS.

[Tom Burgess]

Yikes.

Thanks for furnishing so many good, reasonable options for this “New Mac Reality.” I’m looking at what’s possible in terms of personalizing the basic computer with drives, memory, displays, etc. I hope my options are not too limited. BTW, thanks a LOT for the links. A tremendous help at this stage of “My Conversion.” =]

If I had figured all this out a month ago I might have been in a position to take advantage of some BlackFriday / CyberMonday deal. Oh well…

The 27″ Mac Retina 5K is very interesting, though I’m reluctant to put all components in a single housing. If one component goes down, it all goes down. And I haven’t seen that $1599 price you mention – I see $1799. But then I’ll likely be more comfortable with a refurbished Mac Pro, per your link.

QUESTIONS FOR YOU, JOHN

1. As a Windows user I’m pretty much assured of being able to run a new OS on my old box, within reason. It worries me that a newly released operating system can render a recently-purchased refurbished Mac Pro obsolete. The price for a refurb 2008 or 2009 Mac is lower than I thought it would be(!) but those machines are 9 and 10 years old. Are they likely to survive the next Mac OS release?

2. If not, I’d be forced to remain with the existing OS for a year or two.
Is that a viable option?
Does running the previous Mac OS cause security issues?
Would it be difficult/impossible to update/upgrade audio/video software applications?

3. Are these the two applications you use and recommend for video editing?
a. Final Cut Pro X @ $300
b. Motion 5 @ $50

I’m not a videographer; I use video to further my work in other areas. If those two applications are all I’d need, $350 for both is a good deal. It makes the purchase of a Mac Pro make real sense.

4. I see Final Cut Pro X online for as little as $95. Is that legitimate, or just a Problem Waiting to Happen?

I never thought I’d seriously consider a Mac…but here we are.