DVCPRO HD vs. XDCAM EX Workflow – Who Wins?

[Rafael Amador]

Hi Brian,
I’m using an EX-1 and I’m very-very happy with the quality of the picture. The Rolling Shutter may be a problem for a music-video maker that needs to make very fast movements with the camera in hands or so. In normal operation, even moving the camera quite fast, you don’t see no Rolling Shutter effects at all.
I had the same doubts of you about the Long GOP compression. Not anymore.
The workflow is incredible. Shoot, put your 16GBs SS-Express card in the slot and in 8 minutes you have one hour of footage ready to be edited in FC. As simple as editing DV.
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Philippe Domengie]

Hi Brian,

No hesitation, Sony EX1 or better EX3. It’s a fantastic camera than outpasses HVX200 in any circumtancies. Go to https://philipbloom.co.uk/, he is a DoP and knows these cameras better than anyone. He will answer you to all your question. You can also google sony ex1 versus HVX200 and see some comparative shoots…

Regards,

Philippe Domengie

[Tom Maloney]

How do you down convert with this camera id needed ?

Thanks
Tom

[Rafael Amador]

The camera can down-convert via HD/SD-SDI.
I do it with FC. The picture looks like Betacam Digital.
Rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Dan Brockett]

Hi Phillipe:

I respectfully disagree that the EX-1 outshines the HVX-200 in any circumstances. I have owned and shot with the HVX since it was introduced and have shot thousands of hours of P2 media with it for a huge variety of jobs and environments.

I have been shooting with the EX-1 for about 6 months now. Does the EX-1 have more resolution and is it sharper than the HVX? Yes. Better lens, lcd screen? Yes. Does the SxS workflow work better than the P2 workflow? Not really. Sure you can squeeze more material onto a card with the Sony’s 35MBPS data rate but you may pay for that squeezing somewhere down the road with your workflow.

Both cameras work well for greenscreen (I shoot a lot of it with the ReflecMedia ChromaFlex system as well as traditional greenscreen) so I am not talking about color space. But to me, the hassle of having to transcode the EX-1’s long GOP format to ProRes is an extra step and hassle in comparison to native editing the DVCProHD codec, which is super clean and efficient for many needs. You may be okay in editing in the XDCAM codec but for me, it is too clunky and render intensive and the signal does not hold up as well as the DVCProHD when it comes to multi-layer composites and heavy color correction.

IMHO, there are three specific areas that the Panasonic cameras (HVX-200, 200a and HPX-170) outshine the Sony.

1. JelloVision – yes, the CMOS imager/rolling shutter artifacts can affect your footage negatively in certain situations. Shooting subjects that require long focal lengths and constant rapid panning such as auto racing, tennis, baseball, football and other sports can result on rolling shutter artifacts. I have run into this when shooting baseball and car racing myself. It is very distracting and just plain looks weird. If you buy the latest issue of HD Video Pro Magazine, I contributed some rolling shutter artifact stills to Barry Green’s article on CMOS/rolling shutter.

Shooting around strobe lights, flashes or flashing lights (events with photographers or music venues) also results in rolling shutter artifacts. Not a huge handicap for many shooters but for those who do occasionally shoot in these circumstances, the rolling shutter is a limiting factor that the HVX/HPX cameras do not have.

2. Colorimetry – Although the EX cameras are capable or reproducing good color, some feel that the Panasonic has a superior color rendering for those seeking the most filmic kinds of looks. In short, for experienced eyes and shooters, the EX = a more video-like look, the Panasonic = a more filmic type of look. And yes, I have tweaked and tweaked and tried many different setup recipes for the EX-1 and while I can get a nice picture out of it, it is missing something in the quality of the colorimetry that the Panasonic has. This one is highly subjective but if you are creating a project and trying to obtain the most filmic look, you may be better off with a Panasonic. Many non-technical people have sworn that HVX projects I have shot were film originated, while this has never happened with the Sony footage.

3. Ergonomics – The EX-1 has horrendously bad ergonomics, it leans to one side, is heavy and clunky and the menus and controls are a bit tedious to work with. The HVX-200/200a has merely medicore ergonomics. The HPX-170 has quite good ergonomics. If you shoot handheld a lot, you may find that out of all of these cameras, the HPX-170 is the smallest, lightest and has the best ergonomics. You can always mount the EX-1 on a shoulder mount, counterweight it, add lens controls, etc. and it will be fine but for out of the box handholding, the Panasonics are superior, especially the HPX-170.

IMHO, they are all great cameras and the EX-1 is a great tool. But it is not the be-all/end-all in sub $10k cameras by any means. It is not “the best in any circumstances”. The best would be to own both the EX-1 and the HPX-170. Then, IMHO, you would have the best for any circumstances.

Dan

Providing value added material to all of your favorite DVDs

[Richard Boghosian]

I have been trying to integrate the SxS cards via Sony’s XDCAM transfer program and find the current version very tedious and extremely frustrating in the process of marking clips and re-naming the marked clips in the import process. Most of my current work is in DVCPRO HD format, and the import process does not allow for transcoding during import, nor allowing importing to specific bins within your FCP project. Utilizing Pro res is not a viable option since it actually required rendering for final output-albeit with the green bar preview for rough editing. I suppose if you only work in the XDCAM-EX format, your life will be simpler. Until FCP better supports the format, or Sony does a much better job of improving their import utility-I’d have to pass on XDCAM-EX, as far as FCP is concerned. Edius by Grass Valley handles the format much better. FWIW, workflow wise.

Richard Boghosian
Bogh AV Productions

FCP 6.03 Intel 2.8 8 Core Apple X-Raid and Atto SCSI UL5D Kona LHe

[Miriam Moran]

I’ve got an EX1 and I wouldn’t trade it ! It did ergonomically take a bit to get used to, but the transfer from SxS card can’t be beat for the situations I’m typically in, which require rapid transfer and editing of short turn around video. I’m also extremely happy with the quality – I added this camera to my fleet of Sony Z1Us and now want to sell all of them and buy more EX1’s. Haven’t had any issues with file transfer or editing this format, and 99% of the time I’m editing EX1 in a mixed-format environment. Good luck with your choice!

[Curt Pair]

I have used all of the cameras you’re referring to and many more. I feel that I must share a REAL LIFE story that sums my experiences well.

I am a member of the Sony “ICE Team.” I received the EX1 in February. I didn’t have time to read the manual, or play much with the camera, when I decided to take it on a shoot, set it up in the back of the room and record some time-lapses and second camera footage. Upon completion of building our set for Fox Sports National (we were shooting “Saturday Baseball’s” opening sequence.), I had the EX1 and a Panasonic Varicam sitting on tripods right next to each other.

My sound tech was eager to play with the EX, and hooked it up to our monitor BEFORE he hooked up the Varicam. My client, a Fox producer named Don, says “you’re Varicam setups are simply amazing. They are some of the best I’ve ever seen…”

I looked and didn’t see a BNC/SDI cable connecting the monitor and camera… I asked Don what he was talking about…

“I’m looking at the monitor and it looks awesome!” Don said.

I then had to inform him that he was looking at the “little camera” and NOT the Varicam?

“Are you sure? Then let me see the Varicam!” Don requested.

So, we hooked up the VC and the EX1 in the SAME MONITOR! Once we had the Varicam showing on the montior Don said “no, don’t show me the little camera, I’m only interested in seeing the Varicam!’

I explained that he WAS looking at the Varicam and then “A/B’d” both cameras to prove it.

“OK, explain this to me, how does this little camera look better than the bigger, more expensive Varicam?” Don asked.

“It has a larger imager, so even in 720, the image is going to look better, pixel wise. As for the overall look, I’m not really sure. I’m having a hard time believing this one myself! It’s the first time we’ve pulled it out of the box!” I explained. Please bear in mind that in 720p, 24 fps, this was the ORIGINAL, factory set up, and not something I “painted…”

That’s been the reception with the EX EVERY time we have used it. I sincerely and respectfully disagree with the other individual. I think it does a far SUPERIOR job imitating film than the Panasonic HVX200. In fact, due to it’s six way matrix settings, we’ve managed to match it to Sony F900s, Sony F350/F355s, Z1Us, Varicams, and HDX900s, with about a one percent variance rate (looking at the “matches” on scopes, NOT by eye!)

You should know that during intense flashes of light the rolling shutter does come into affect. I’ve had that one on my own trying to shoot lighting. We’ve tried all sorts of things, and it’s just the nature of a rolling shutter. But the intervelometer, slow shutter, and over/under cranking features make up for it.

I must also disagree that the camera’s ergonomics and menu set ups are cumbersome. I do agree that the EX3 pulls to the right side, but NOT the EX1. I feel the HVX200 is heavier and bulkier than the EX1. The menu structure resembles that of other smaller Sony cameras, such as the Z1u, V1u, Z7, etc. Even with my experience in larger HD cameras, like the F900, Varicam, and XD HD cameras, I was able to spend VERY little time going through the menus to find what I needed to perform a task efficiently.

The “original” files transfer from the camera or drive faster than P2. I will admit, I’m not an FCP user. But I can transfer an hours worth of files into Adobe Premiere Pro CS3 HD and be editing in 9 minutes!

Plus, I can STORE the material by utilizing XD Cam HD discs. That way I’ll always have tangible files. If I want, I can even store them on DVDs. I’ve had great success with both.

For my company, this is and was never meant to be a primary camera! It does an excellent job as a second camera. HOWEVER, with that being said, in vehicles, small spaces, and for looking less conspicuous, this camera has quickly replaced larger cameras in our arsenal. For the money, the EX1 can’t be beat!

I suggest renting both, at the same time, and trying them out for yourself. In the end, you’ll find your answer. I feel you’ll fall in love with the EX line, and make a wise choice. Remember, your opinion is the only one that matters for your work flow.

Good luck!

[Rafael Amador]

[Dan Brockett] “But to me, the hassle of having to transcode the EX-1’s long GOP format to ProRes is an extra step and hassle in comparison to native editing the DVCProHD “
Why do you need transcode to ProRes? I work directly with the EX-1 footage. Same than working with DV.

[Dan Brockett] “results in rolling shutter artifacts. Not a huge handicap for many shooters but for those who do occasionally shoot in these circumstances, the rolling shutter is a limiting factor that the HVX/HPX cameras do not have. “
If you want to have Rolling Shutter issues, you really have to look for them. Avoiding Rolling Shutter problems is as easy as shooting Interlaced. A flash? De-interlace one field and the flash is gone.

IMHO, DVCProHD have no much future. 100 Mbps is a lot for what the format offers up-today (PANASONIC have already something better). The people using today the HVX200 or the EX-1 simply can’t afford archiving such a data rate.
I put my EX-1 rushes in BlueRay discs as .mov. Don’t need even to copy them in an HD because FC can read them in RT from the disc. Can you do that with DVCproHD?
Cheers,
rafael
PS: In e-Bay USA you find 5 HVX200 for sale. Only one EX-1.

http://www.nagavideo.com

[Mitch Ives]

[Rafael Amador] “If you want to have Rolling Shutter issues, you really have to look for them. Avoiding Rolling Shutter problems is as easy as shooting Interlaced. A flash? De-interlace one field and the flash is gone. “

I not only disagree, but I think that statement is utterly ridiculous. We found them the first time out, and have seen them virtually every time we’ve used the camera. I suppose if it sits on a tripod, and you don’t move it much, you may not see them, but I wouldn’t call that real world use. And I certainly wouldn’t accept being forced to shoot interlaced as the solution.

First, they show up every time there is a strobe. We can actually see the effect on the external HD monitors. And no, this isn’t just a problem for wedding videographers. For us, the strobes on a police car in one shot made the footage problematic. Shooting music videos was another.

In moving cars or helicopters you can get the famous “swimming video” look. Nice… totally unusable footage.

Hand-held and too much movement can also introduce artifacts.

I’m not suggesting that people shouldn’t buy these cameras, but hey, let’s not lie to ourselves either.

Try the P2 forum… there are also some threads over there comparing the cameras…

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com