DVCPro HD show editied in FCP – Client wants to finish on Avid

[Gary Adcock]

[bbalser] I’ve been told by several folks that Avid will recognize QuickTime DVCPRO-HD files just fine. But I’ve not actually done it.””

Depends on what your frame rate is and which avid and you had better not plan on it working correctly.

720p24 in NOT an avid supported frame rate for example

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Oliver Peters]

[gary adcock] “720p24 in NOT an avid supported frame rate for example”

Gary,

I just double-checked this. On my version of MC 2.6.6, it supports 720p/23.98, 720p/29.97HDV and 720p/59.94. FCP’s 24p DVCPROHD files import fine and in fact, when they are imported into the 59.94 project, Avid adds 3:2 pulldown. I haven’t checked, but there may be additional project variations in 2.7

Sincerely,
Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Gary Adcock]

[Oliver Peters] “On my version of MC 2.6.6, it supports 720p/23.98, 720p/29.97HDV and 720p/59.94. FCP’s 24p DVCPROHD files import fine and in fact, when they are imported into the 59.94 projec”

thats only media composer- I did not say all avids,

However most AVID finishing is done on:
Adrenaline which depending on Version the 720 mode only supports 720p30 and 60 but not 24, or Nitris the highest end of the Avid spectrum and it only supports 720p60.
A couple Adrenaline versions can actually read the flagged frames on capture over FW buss but it is my understanding that no Avid supports VFR capture over HDSDI.

It very much depends on which model of the avid you work on.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Oliver Peters]

[gary adcock] “thats only media composer- I did not say all avids,
However most AVID finishing is done on:
Adrenaline which depending on Version the 720 mode only supports 720p30 and 60 but not 24, or Nitris the highest end of the Avid spectrum and it only supports 720p60”

Gary,

I hate to be a pest, but this is old info. Check the current tech specs. Media Composer (software only), Media Composer Adrenaline (with DNxcel card), Xpress Pro and Symphony Nitris all support DVCPROHD at 720p/23.98 and 720p/59.94.

If by “Nitris” you mean the Avid DS, then you are correct, it doesn’t support 720p/24. DS has always been the odd system out, so most editors cutting on Avid would prefer to conform on Symphony Nitris, because of the Total Conform features.

In the past, there have also been issues with support for true 24fps versus 23.98fps on Avid systems. This has changed in the transition from Meridien (which were 24fps) and current DNA units, which prefer a video-friendly 23.98fps.

Best wishes,
Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com

[Gary Adcock]

[Oliver Peters] “I hate to be a pest, but this is old info. Check the current tech specs.”

thats correct Oliver, but 80% of the avid users I work with do not use the latest software and that number rises as you head further west.

For the vast majority of avid users or anyone not working in the latest .x release of their avids software versions, the 720p workflow is abysmal.
Unlike the fanatical FCP users, Avid uses are less likely to update their edit stations do to the cost or complexity of the upgrade path.

Avid has been woeful in their support of 720p, with the exception of the the software only versions of the Apps you did not have widespread support for the flavors of the format on most Avid systems until Late 2006 / Early 2007 (vs 2004 for FCP).
. The big saving grace is that for the most part Avid actually understands 720p25 better than FCP does.

“…Symphony Nitris all support DVCPROHD at 720p/23.98 and 720p/59.94”
I was told that this update was not shipping yet.
Symphony Nitris did not perform in this manner when I talked to the product manager at the Editors Retreat in Feb. of this year, when there was no support for 720p at all.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Shane Ross]

[gary adcock] “thats correct Oliver, but 80% of the avid users I work with do not use the latest software and that number rises as you head further west.”

That is TOO TRUE. The two production companies that I do most of my freelancing for still use Avid Meridian v11…on Mac OS9 and G4’s. They invested $65,000+ into these machines and they are going to use them until they burn out. And since they still work for what they need them for….uh…not really. because as Gary said:

[gary adcock] “For the vast majority of avid users or anyone not working in the latest .x release of their avids software versions, the 720p workflow is abysmal.”

Absolutely! I worked on a series shot 720p24 with a Varicam and post was a NIGHTMARE. The series went $200,000 over budget due to issues onlining the show…that was captured at 29.97. SO many problems that when I was approached with another Varicam show, I opted for FCP, and convincing my producer didn’t take any effort.

My current setup cost me $14,000, and I can capture and edit HD (from HDV to HDCAM SR), and deliver an HDCAM or D5 master…fully color corrected. For a similar Avid system, I’d have to spend at least twice that, most likely more…and that only gets me Composer. With FCP I get several other applications. Some I use, some I don’t.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Oliver Peters]

Shane and Gary,

[Shane Ross] “The two production companies that I do most of my freelancing for still use Avid Meridian v11…on Mac OS9 and G4’s.”

Absolutely true, but the irony is that the 720p capability has been in Avid’s lower end Xpress Pro HD product (initially PC only) for a couple of years now. Of course, if they are using Meridiens, they aren’t onlining HD with them either.

[Shane Ross] “Absolutely! I worked on a series shot 720p24 with a Varicam and post was a NIGHTMARE.”

Well, I haven’t been thrilled by 720p support in either Avid or FCP. Given the options, I much prefer taking 720p content from Varicam, upconverting that on ingest to 1080/24p and working that way. Of course, it’s much tougher when dealing with P2, where upconvert from tape isn’t an option. I just think that most of the software hasn’t figured out how to properly deal with 24 vs 30 vs 60fps TC.

[Shane Ross] “. For a similar Avid system, I’d have to spend at least twice that, most likely more…and that only gets me Composer”

No argument there. Same here. My market is largely FCP and that gives me the most options. Not because of FCP, but because of the peripherals – Kona, Io, VTRs, etc. In all fairness, I think you would get similar numbers configuring MC Soft + Mojo SDI versus FCP + Io. The Avid would still be more, but closer than before. It’s HD that clobbers you. The minimum would be MCA+DNxcel (HD card). This would add $10-15K over an FCP/Kona3 solution and the Kona3 would be uncompressed. Avid wouldn’t until you get into a big-bucks SN or DS system.

Personally I just don’t care that much any more. They all work for me. I just wanted it to be clear that there is some level of 720p/24 support. To say that older Avids didn’t support it is OK, but really there are plenty of folks still using FCP3, 4, 4.5 who also don’t have the newest FCP feature. I think you’ll see that my first response to Rob was that this was a bad idea, since an FCP->FCP conform would yield the best results.

In any case, we’ve probably beaten this to death!

Cheers,
Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com