DVC Pro HD to Apple Pro Res

[Bryan Banks]

What would be your reason to go to an intermediate codec?

-Bryan

[Sam Pope]

I’ve just been told by a few people that prores is a better, lossless, intermediate codec, especially if you are going to be using graphics, images, motion graphics, etc.

[Mark Maness]

ProRes422 is NOT an intermediate codec UNLESS you use the lower end forms that were just made available to us. ProRes422(HQ) is only needed IF you are doing 2k or 4k film (or film out). It will not make your footage any better than it already is. But what it will do is eat drive space and bandwidth.

I dare you to compare the two codecs. Take a clip and place into a DVCProHD timeline, add graphics and render. Now, take the same clip place it into a ProRes422(HQ) timeline and render.

What does it look like? Is it better?

What kind of graphics do you have that makes you think that you need ProRes422(HQ)? What is your primary output for this project?

Just question that need to be asked every time you start a project.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
https://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com

[Shane Ross]

ProRes is a FINISHING codec…not intermediate. And taking DVCPRO HD to ProRes is pretty pointless. DVCPRO HD editing is lossless. You imported the same format you shot, you cannot get any better quality. Edit DVCPRO HD and then output. You are at full resolution already.

I have delivered many MANY networks shows in this format, shot with that camera.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Kevin Hedin]

I’m surprised at the responses here. Remember that DVCPROHD is NOT a full-raster codec, so for 720p, the DVCPROHD codec’s resolution is 960×720 instead of ProRes’s 1280×720. While your footage will not improve, your graphics WILL. Any text or logo or animation will have to conform to the codec on your sequence, and jaggies are much more apparent on graphics when dropped onto a DVCPROHD seq. This is an easy test to do yourself, and I think you will find that despite the storage hit, it’s well worth your time.

My personal preference, is to convert to ProresHQ on Ingest, this will save you time if you haven’t ingested yet. Otherwise, use compressor and be done with it.

My 2 cents.

Kevin

Kevin Hedin
Digital One, Inc.
Anchorage, AK

[Shane Ross]

[Kevin Hedin] “My personal preference, is to convert to ProresHQ on Ingest”

You are wasting space. ProRes HQ is for 2K and 4K workflows. (We seem to have to say this more than a few times a day). ProRes 422 is plenty fine for 1080i and 720p. You’ll see no difference between 422 and HQ at those sizes, so why take up the extra space needlessly?

Oh, plus there are small issues in using HQ in some instances.

https://forums.creativecow.net/faq/applefinalcutpro#75

I’ve never had an issue with my graphics in DVCPRO HD. It all gets mushed anyways when it gets compressed for air, so whatever I might gain by going ProRes, is gone by the time it hits the air.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Kevin Hedin]

Wasting space? Well, lets just chalk this one up to personal preference then. I always recommend viewing/comparing your material on a large high-quality broadcast monitor where decisions like this can be properly made. For me, it’s HQ unless it’s a special case scenario. Besides, storage is cheap.

In regards to broadcast… unless your local area is still broadcasting commercials in SD and not HD, I’d say it’s totally worth it to make your masters the best they can be. Why would you give your clients any less?

Talk to the broadcasters in your area, and see if you can deliver an MPEG-Transport stream instead, so that it will play on their servers. This way you can avoid them having to re-compress your material.

Shane, where in FCP’s white papers does it say that HQ is exclusively for 2k, 4k? I’ve never heard that. If I recall correctly, ProRes422 and LT is recommended for news organizations, where content, not quality, is king.

*Sam, sorry for taking this thread slightly off-topic, but I hope all this information helps.

Kevin Hedin
Digital One, Inc.
Anchorage, AK

[Shane Ross]

Nowhere in the white papers…look at the FAQ link I provided. This was tested out in real world situations by experts.

And if you don’t think that HD over the air isn’t heavily compressed…guess again!

HQ vs 422, viewed on an external broadcast monitor (the only things I use to judge) show exact same quality. Even the scopes show that. HQ really only shows differences when you work with 2K and up. From what I have seen at post houses who have such footage, 40ft screens with 2K Christie monitors, and the ability to show you.

Shane

GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def

[Mark Maness]

Shane is right here. What format do you typically air, Kevin? ProRes422(HQ) would normally be used HDCAM & HDCAM SR. It is high quality but can you easily prove the extra space and render time is worth it when you air.

Let’s not get into a flame war on this. I’d like to hear fro Gary Adcock on this. He’s quite the expert when it comes to the codecs.

I can tell you right now that most of us here air on DVCProHD, and some of us air thru XDCAM HD. Besides, I can tell you that all HD stations thru a digital signal air at a lesser resolution than 1920×1080. Most cable outlets air at 1280×1080 to conserve bandwidth.

Kevin, you are correct in your statement of giving the best quality possible but why drive an 18 wheeler to deliver a 13″ TV.
ALWAYS ask clients what quality and level of output before tackling a project.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
https://web.mac.com/schazamproductions
schazamproductions@mac.com

[Bill Latka]

So taking Sam’s original question one step farther – What if you need to add some HDV and other source material to the mix?

We’re about to start the edit of a TV show project with:

75% of the footage is DVCPRO HD 1080i60
10% HDV 1080i60 footage
10% of the footage is TBA (getting an existing TV show from the network and we may have some input on the format – will be HD)
5% of the footage including a few other HDV and DVCPRO HD clips shot at 23.98.

Now what would you recommend as our base format? Transcode everything to ProRes 422 or digitize the HDV to DVCPRO HD? And what of the timeline?

Thanks