DV Rack and Weddings/Events

[Aanarav Sareen]

Don’t have any advice regarding DVRack, but have some info regarding the laptop:

How much is your budget? If you can afford anywhere close to a $1500 laptop, I would highly reccomend the Dell Inspiron 9300. They currently have a $800 off $2000 coupon for the 9300. Take a look at https://www.slickdeals.net for the coupon code. This laptop has a 17inch screen and is a powerful system overall. (I use this as my editing system) If you are looking for a 15inch model, take a look at the Inspiron 6000d. A little more portable than the 9300, but not nearly as powerful.

[Bouncing Account needs new email address]

Computer screens are simply not the same contrast or resolution as NTSC or PAL video monitors.
They can flat-out “lie” to you about your levels and focus (as will the LCD’s built in to camcorders.)

Since you asked, my advice is to spend your money on a good CRT (not LCD) shooting monitor.
If that monitor is properly set-up, you can make dead-on iris, focus and framing decisions based on it during the critical parts of the ceremony.

Direct-to-Computer is “nice” little feature… A truthful monitor can help save your ASSETS.

As for playing demos to clients, use your camcorder hooked up to your “good” monitor.

[Doug Graham]

I haven’t used it at a wedding shoot, but I think it could be a useful tool. Of course, you don’t want to be tied to a laptop when you’re doing runa and gun shooting, such as at the reception. But when you’re on a tripod at the church, it could be used. For direct-to-disk while shooting mobile, something like the Firestore FS-4 would be preferable.

As to the laptop not giving a “true” image: That’s correct, but since DVRack provides color bard, and a WFM/vectorscope, you should be able to use it to get a good, calibrated image.

Regards,
Doug Graham

[Tony]

Doug,

You are missing the point on using a laptop PC monitor versus a CRT for critical image monitoring. It has nothing to do about observing the video signal on a waveform or vectorscope but rather the LCD monitor itself which cannot be trusted in terms of resolution (for focus) gamma, brightness, black level, dynamic range,color etc etc.

There is no sense in using a waveform/vectorscope if the monitor you are using is technically incapable of displaying a color critical accurate image.
You will be actually fooled by an inaccurate monitor regardless of what the dvrack tells you.

Tony Salgado

[Bouncing Account needs new email address]

[tony salgado] “You will be actually fooled by an inaccurate monitor regardless of what the dvrack tells you. “

This is no small matter.
You can actually get back to edit a video and discover (on a “real” monitor) that the image is severely under-exposed, or you THOUGHT that the focus looked “sweet” on the LCD only to find that the bride’s detailed veil is actually a bit blurry in the close-ups during the entire ceremony!

I’d much rather make my LIVE under-the-gun decisions on a trusted CRT monitor than have a vectorscope, waveform monitor or other gear (which I DO have).
When you can SEE that your image looks RIGHT, you can feel confident about the rest of the production.

Beleive me, I have come home from shoots where I “trusted” the camera’s LCD for exposure, etc. and had a real “surprise” (that did not merit a cake!)

[Mark Suszko]

For showing stuff to clients, you don’t need an expensive laptop, check out the economical portable DVD players, they look like laptops, but are priced between 200 and 400 bucks. Have their own screens as well as a video-out to hook to client’s TV or a monitor or projector you bring along.

[Peter Ralph]

A CRT monitor – do you mean NTSC?

I use an NTSC monitor and a waveform monitor on a laptop if I have control over lighting – otherwise I trust a 6″ camera mounted nebtek lcd, on a tripod or the viewfinder if shoulder mounted. The subtle differences between lcd and ntsc monitors are largely irrelevant if you don’t have precise control over the shoot.

If you shoot events sooner or later you will have to learn to do without external monitors of any type. Knowing your camera is key.

[Bouncing Account needs new email address]

[Peter Ralph] “A CRT monitor – do you mean NTSC? “

Nope.

I’ve (we’ve) been talking about the differences between LCD (laptop and otherwise) and CRT monitors and they ARE very different.

LCD have very limited “sweet” angles so that if you are at a slightly “wrong” angle you can make a very “wrong” iris decision.
The color renditions are different (you can’t really judge true chroma levels… not really a big deal) but the contrast “steps” are very different (LCDs are limited) and that can give you the wrong impression of whether the blacks are too high or low (as well as incorrect readings on white-clipping areas).

Sure, lots of folks shoot with LCD monitors (I would LOVE to… much more convenient than bulky CRTs) but I can’t RELY on them for correct “feedback” when I NEED to know under LIVE SHOW conditions.
(I shoot stage presentaions with ZERO chance for re-takes… kind of like a WEDDING!)

[Doug Graham]

Matte,

I have to (continue to) disagree.
Yes, an NTSC CRT monitor IS the best way to actually see the image. But these days, an LCD is a perfectly acceptable alternative, IF you’re aware of its limitations.

1. Never make an exposure decision on the image alone. Use the camera’s zebra bars. (I’d apply this to CRTs as well as LCDs).

2. Critical focus can be done with an external monitor, but checking with the camera viewfinder is a good idea. The VF itself may (or may not) have more pixels than the external monitor, and also the camera may add additional sharpening to the VF image that is not available on an external signal.

3. For high definition work, an SD monitor (or viewfinder) may not do the job. An HD LCD with a native resolution that’s the same as the camera’s output could be a better choice, especially if you can’t afford a $6,000 HD CRT monitor.

4. The change in brightness and colorimetry with viewing angle is a problem unique to LCDs. You do need to look at them straight on.

5. My point about the DVRack having test equipment built-in is that you can use it to:
a) calibrate your laptop display using SMPTE color bars. This will get the image very close to that of an NTSC CRT monitor.
b) More importantly, you can shoot a physical color bar chart with your camera, to check white balance. You can shoot a gray chart to check exposure. The WFM and vectorscope will tell you a lot more about the setup than you can see with your naked eye on any sort of monitor, either LCD or CRT.

Regards,
Doug Graham

[Chad Eller]

Thanks so much for the input. Im sure that a real monitor is going to provide a truer image than a laptop, however Im not too proud to admit that my eye and experience with my camera (HDR-FX1, my first, and I know DV Rack only captures DV) isnt ready even if I had a CRT monitor. The fact DV Rack holds your hand in setting up the shot is what sold me. Im convinced DV Rack is going to give me MUCH better shots than shooting with everything set to auto, which aside from setting the white balance was the extinct of what I was doing till now (keep in mind Im just starting to advertise as a buisness, albeit a very small on the side “oh god help me pay for this camera” operation, and its been strictly family/personal stuff up till now (my first scheduled wedding is in July). One year from now I feel I will have a much better grasp of setting up a shot and the monitor may be a viable/better option but right now I feel like Ive made the right choice.
That being said, Id still like to hear from people who use the software for event shoots, good and bad.
Thanks again, Creative Cow is the best Ive come across and I really appreciate it and it’s users,
Chad Eller