Dropped frames with ProRes

[Jerry Hofmann]

Hard to say what’s causing the dropped frames, but it’s usually just a matter of isolating the problem by attacking it first from a software setup and possible installation weaknesses, or hardware… which isn’t as easy to look into. But if you aren’t working on a cleanly installed system, that’s likely the problem. Has to be clean, and fairly recent. At the school I teach at part time, there are 75 workstations, and we can play ProRes back from single internal satas all day long… BUT… each of these systems is totally reinstalled from the ground up every semester…. NOt working in really long form projects however… But it’s where I’d start the troubleshooting. Pick a system, wipe it’s hard drive, and reinstall it all cleanly over a totally updated system setup… Might be all that needs to be done. If the system wasn’t cleanly installed when it went from an earlier version of FCS or FCP to Studio 2, or say, went from Tiger to Leopard or Panther to Tiger, it’s time for a reinstall on that system.

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer

Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17″ MBP, Matrox MXO, CD’s

[Tony Markward]

Thanks for the tip Jerry. One of the systems in question was not a clean install, but the others were all clean (and sometimes re-clean installed several times by the edit house to try to address the problems).

Perhaps it’s a long form thing, since I’ve had far fewer problems with shorter shows. I guess I’ll just keep plugging.

[Damien Barnecutt]

I have been having similar problems, which has been driving me mad to track them down.

I can’t capture the footage in FCP or Blackmagic Deck Control with out getting dropped frames using 720p 60 Uncompressed or ProRes or Blackmagic JPEG Ect.

I also tried duplicate hardware for every thing accepted the Mac Pro 2.8 but still it would not capture, drop frames message would appear.

But now I tested the same Drive hardware + raid card and the boot drive on an older Mac pro 2.6 and no drop frames are happening IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like your verdict the Blackmagic disk speed test, passed??????????

I then did a more advanced custom drive speed tests on the Mac Pro 2.8 using Diglloyd Disktester 2.

https://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/software/disktester/

Test used was: disktester run-area-test –chunk-size 64MB –iterations 300 –delta-percent 10 –test-size 64MB raid0

Apple onboard Sata controller

4x 500GB Seagate ST3500320AS drive In Bay 1 to 4 ——1.8TB Raid0 Striped Raid Set

Iteration 219: writing…350MB/sec, reading…244MB/sec
Iteration 220: writing…350MB/sec, reading…233MB/sec
Iteration 221: writing…335MB/sec, reading…244MB/sec
Iteration 222: writing…335MB/sec, reading…244MB/sec
Iteration 223: writing…335MB/sec, reading…117MB/sec
Iteration 224: writing…90.1MB/sec, reading…273MB/sec
Iteration 225: writing…343MB/sec, reading…244MB/sec
Iteration 226: writing…351MB/sec, reading…244MB/sec

Areca Raid Card
4x 250GB Seagate ST3250624AS (Areca Raid Card) ——931.0GB Hardware Raid 0 Striped

Iteration 263: writing…341MB/sec, reading…246MB/sec
Iteration 264: writing…334MB/sec, reading…246MB/sec
Iteration 265: writing…144MB/sec, reading…267MB/sec
Iteration 266: writing…334MB/sec, reading…246MB/sec
Iteration 267: writing…334MB/sec, reading…246MB/sec
Iteration 268: writing…334MB/sec, reading…246MB/sec
Iteration 269: writing…334MB/sec, reading…132MB/sec
Iteration 270: writing…328MB/sec, reading…246MB/sec
Iteration 271: writing…328MB/sec, reading…246MB/sec
Iteration 272: writing…335MB/sec, reading…246MB/sec

On average you will see glitches appearing every 50 Iteration in the Data Rate.

As you can see this happens regardless if I use the onboard Sata controller or an Areca Raid Card.

I am about to do a drive speed test with the same hardware on a Mac pro 2.6.

So if the Mac Pro 2.6 keeps a constant Data Rate with in reason, the problem must lie with the MacPro 2.8

Genesis bar hear I come.

Damien

[Damien Barnecutt]

I have done a drive speed test to compare the same hard drive in Mac pro 2.8 and Mac pro 2.6 and there pretty much the same, not the answer I was looking for.

Mac Pro 2.8

4x 500GB Seagate ST3500320AS drives In Bay 1 to 4 ——1.8TB Raid0 Striped Raid Set

Test disktester run-area-test –chunk-size 300MB –iterations 100 –delta-percent 33 –test-size 300MB raid0

Iteration 89: writing…309MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 90: writing…309MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 91: writing…315MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 92: writing…315MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 93: writing…312MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 94: writing…192MB/sec, reading…278MB/sec
Iteration 95: writing…312MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 96: writing…313MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 97: writing…313MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 98: writing…315MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 99: writing…315MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec

Mac Pro 2.6

4x 500GB Seagate ST3500320AS drives In Bay 1 to 4 ——1.8TB Raid0 Striped Raid Set

Test disktester run-area-test –chunk-size 300MB –iterations 100 –delta-percent 33 –test-size 300MB raid0

Iteration 58: writing…308MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 59: writing…312MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 60: writing…202MB/sec, reading…268MB/sec
Iteration 61: writing…309MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 62: writing…188MB/sec, reading…278MB/sec
Iteration 63: writing…309MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 64: writing…313MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 65: writing…313MB/sec, reading…187MB/sec
Iteration 66: writing…310MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 67: writing…312MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec
Iteration 68: writing…313MB/sec, reading…270MB/sec

I am assuming this is a natural behavior with this Test as the Hardware Raid also showed similar results on both computers.

But more importantly the 4x 500GB Raid 0 drives using the apple built-in sata and 10 x 250 GB Raid 0 drives using Areca Raid Card which could not capture uncompressed 720p or HR ProRes on the Mac pro 2.8!!!!! Worked with out problems on the Mac Pro 2.6!!!!!!

I will leave the Tec Thinking to the Genius Bar.

Hope this help’s someone.

Damien

[David Roth weiss]

[Damien Barnecutt] “I will leave the Tec Thinking to the Genius Bar.”

Better start thinking about finding a good VAR in your area, because the folks at the genius bar won’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.

[Damien Barnecutt]

Hi David

It maybe obvious to you, but what does the abbreviation VAR mean?

A professional video computer person of some sort I imagine.

Genius bar is booked and I will update what the problem is later.

Damien

[Gary Adcock]

[Damien Barnecutt] “but what does the abbreviation VAR mean? “

Value Added Reseller. – someone that might actually know what your problem is.

[Damien Barnecutt] “Genius bar is booked and I will update what the problem is later. “

do not waste your time- the apple “genius’s ” can barely find there way out of the stockroom when it comes to provideo necessities – they are trained to handle ipod and phone issues not the needs of a “Professional Video App”

IF you have access to an Apple store – there is a proper VAR in your area – go look on apples website for “Pro Video VAR” to find one near you.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

Inside look at the IoHD

[Damien Barnecutt]

Hi Gary

VAR makes a lot of sense I’m going to find one.

Many thanks

Damien

[Marcus Ionis]

Recently I’ve been having the same problem with Prores as well.

All the footage from my clients have been 1080 29.97 or 23.98 Prores HQ and “dropped frames” reported when mastering out to tape.

So far the best option has been “trash pref” and shut down.

Once I start up, immediately open the FCP Prores project and don’t adjust the factory setting too much.

Then the output works.

Even though I was able output 1080 29.97 Uncompress with out much problems, the Prores some how doesn’t play friendly.

This isn’t a fix but a work around. I find this issue very unusual and would love a technical answer.

Do I need faster storage? Or a Eight-Core? Or does the problem rest in QT? Any responses would be appreciated.

10.4.11

2x Dual Core Intel

FCP 6.0.4

QT 7.5.5

S2VR CAldigit 3.2TB
KONA 3 6.0.1

Marcus Ionis

[Damien Barnecutt]

Hi I won’t go into the full story right now, which brought me to this point.

But in the last two days I have discover something very interesting.

Both an older Decklink HD Extreme (NO HDMI) and a Multibridge Extreme have problems with the 2nd generation MacPros with certain desktop screen resolutions from my observations.

I have verified this on 3 MacPro 2.8.

Test 01

If a Samsung 24inch LCD Screen is set to the resolution of 1920 x 1200 via digital DVI or analog VGA.
FCP or the DeckControl programs will drop frames when capturing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But if the resolution of the display monitor is set to 1280 x 1024 via digital DVI, or if the resolution of the display monitor is set to 1600 x 1024 via analog VGA, I do not get the drop frame problems in FCP or DeckControl when capturing footage for 63min. it Works NO DROP FRAMES.

I used the Decklink and Multibridge installed separately on the 4 different tests to confirm that they both performed exactly the same way.

I previously tested the following examples before realising the problem.

Test 02

When I was testing Decklink HD Extreme on a MacPro 2.8 and a 2nd MacPro 2.8 both with NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB connected to two CRTs, resolutions 1600 x 1200 on both of them. I did not get drop frame problems in FCP, it Works on both computers!!!!!!! Tested for 3 hours each!!!!!!!!!

Test 03

When I was testing Decklink HD Extreme on a MacPro 2.8 with NVIDIA GeForce 8800 and on a 2nd MacPro 2.8 with ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT, connected to an Apple Cinema Display 20″ 1680 x 1050 + a second non apple display,( resolutions I can’t remember) FCP dropped frames on both computers.

As you can see some resolutions work and some don’t.

Also all of the tests were conducted using the same start up disk, the same x2 500GB apple raid0 capture disk and was fully tested to have adequate bandwidth for ProRes HD 720p 1280×720 59.94 at 27.5MB a second.

If anyone finds lowering or changing the resolution of your desktop display or using a different display works for you, could you please reply to this post to confirm this?
This would be very helpful to confirm it’s not just me having these problems.

Many thanks

Damien

Ps

In the previous post I mentioned glitches appearing in the Data Rate when testing 4 x 500GB Drives setup as a raid0.
It turns out that one of the drives was slower, making the glitches happen. So the program Diglloyd Disktester was completely correct and I have now eliminated this drive from the testing, so this has nothing to do with the problem above.