dropped frames on multicam 16 up

[Dan Riley]

I offer the following as only from my perspective.
Take if or leave it.

If you have 4 cameras and four takes,
that’s 4 multiclips, each with 4 cameras and a take.
Yes?

I edit multicam shows all the time (4 or 5 camera
simultanious timecode studio shows) and that’s
the way I make multiclips. Did it that way in AVID
for years too. Why would you want to see all
the takes running at the same time, with different
audio and different timing and movements?
Watch all four multiclip takes separately and pick one.
If you don’t like one of the camera shots,
go get another one from another take from another multiclip.

Now, as for trying to get FCP to playback 16 streams
in realtime from one drive…..what are you smoking?
You need a RAID for that; I don’t care what the FCP
marketing stuff says.

Dan

[L Isha]

Hi Dan,

Thanks! Actually the RAID is on order and due in next week (https://www.caeneng.com/products/raid_sata-i.shtml). So with the RAID I will be able to do 16 up?

The shoot is a performance show. The talent performed to music tracks. Since each take was shot with the talent performing to the same music track I thought it would save time to put all the angles up at once. All 16 angles will be used to edit into one performance clip. I am open to suggestions on the best way to edit this. I have 12 performances to edit down. 12 performances — 4 cameras — 4 takes of each performance. In some instances the talent flubbed the song, so then I have partial takes of the song. AND I am on a deadline! LOL!

Thanks so much!
Lisha

[Dan Riley]

Although you are doing something different than me, in the sense that
it’s the same audio track for each take, I still would make multiclips
of each take of 4 cameras. You sit and you watch them and memorize
the good and the bad of each. Then you watch the next one.
After you watch all four takes, drag your favorite one, or at least
the one that starts out the best, to the timeline and edit to that one.
You can always load the other takes in the viewer and find
better shots, but you need to lay down a starting point.
For me, looking at all the takes at once, in 16 very small screens,
doesn’t seem useful. But that’s just me.
If it works for you, who the heck am I to tell you to change.

As for the RAID playing back all 16 streams, how many drives
are you getting? What SATA PCI card are you getting?
It’s tuff to say if it will work or not. There is the issue of
your CPU. Is it a dual machine or single?
FCP doesn’t run too well for RT multistream playback
unless it’s one of the newer ones. I use a dual 2.5 gig.
But I only run 4up for multicam. No trouble most of the time,
but I occationally get dropped frames. But it’s only
while all the screens are ganged, not for just the
sequence playback. I have a 4 drive SATA RAID
using the Sonnet 4+4 card.

My issue right now is since I’ve been using FCP5.0.2
I’ve been getting random crashes of FCP. This almost
never happed with 4.5, and I’m pissed off about it.
My system didn’t change, just the OS (tiger) and FCP to 5.
It’s not ‘pro’ anymore in my book right now. The lost
productivity from all the restarts and resetting and
redoing lost edits is making a move back to the AVID
a more financially viable option. The Media Composer
costs much more upfront but it is rock solid and you get
your work done and out the door much faster.

Dan

[Bouncing Account needs new email address]

[Danrnw] “The Media Composer
costs much more upfront but it is rock solid and you get
your work done and out the door much faster.”

Deja Vu!

I remember the same things being said about ON-LINE 1″ VPR and BetaCam edit suites vs. the (then) new Avid MC systems.

Only THEN it was, “It may cost us nearly a MILLION DOLLARS to build an on-line suite, but that cheap ($80,000) Avid keeps crashing and we need to get the work done!”

Budgets, gear (and Perspectives) sure change as time goes by.

😉

(Happy with FCP now, and know it will only get better and cheaper.)

[L Isha]

Thanks Dan!

I am swaying towards using 4up and or 8up due to the amount of time I have to cut this. The first two takes were done with 2 stationary cameras, the 3 rd take concentrated on a jib shot with the other cameras running and the 4th shot concentrated on a steadi cam shot with the other cameras rolling. Are you suggesting build in the timeline using one take at a time? I used to do that when I did music videos on Avid. 🙂 You bring up a good point about the best way to edit this. Time to start a new post! LOL!

My system is a G5, dual 2.3 with an additional 5 gigs of ram.

I am getting the ATTO card…

https://www.attotech.com/ultra4s.html
“The ATTO ExpressPCI UL4S offers the latest in SCSI storage connectivity, delivering the ultimate data-delivery performance of up to 320 MB/sec. The UL4S which features the new PCI-X bus interface and incorporates improved SCSI standards, is ideal for delivering data to the most demanding Enterprise server and high-end workstation environments. Enabled with ATTO’s exclusive VpathTM Technology, the UL4S offers users the flexibility of connecting high-speed Ultra320 devices externally and slower legacy devices internally, or vice versa, without sacrificing the performance of the high-speed device. This allows users to take full advantage of Ultra320 and legacy speeds simultaneously.”

And a CAEN RAID
http://www.caeneng.com
Overview
Fibrenetix FX 606-U4 combines Ultra320 host connection with SATA drive interface to offer blistering performance at unbeatable price. The FX 606-U4 is totally OS independent and offers true plug and play connectivity to any Windows or Macintosh environment with no software or drivers required. It provides enhanced features and capabilities making it very easy to use with minimal technical maintenance.

The stylish, portable 5-bay enclosure makes the FX 606U4 an ideal back-up device and provides an impressive 2 Terabyte storage capacity. The FX 606U4 is a truly versatile RAID system, perfect for any end user environment where high performance and problem-free mass storage is a requirement.

Features
Hardware RAID controller with Intel 80321 400MHz 64-bit RISC processor
Ultra320 SCSI host interface
5x SATA drive channels
128MB onboard cache memory with ECC protection
RAID levels 0,1,0+1, 3, 5 and JBOD
OS Independent and Transparent
Supports multiple RAID sets
Array roaming – seamless movement of HDDs without any loss of configuration or data
Online stripe size migration
Online capacity expansion and RAID level migration – add new drives to an existing array and change RAID level simultaneously
Automatic and transparent hot spare rebuild
Hot-Swappable Drives
Instant availability and background initialization
Automatic drive insertion / removal detection and rebuild
NVRAM for transaction log
Write-through and Write-back cache support
WEB based RAID management via HTTP Proxy
Firmware embedded manager via LCD control panel or RS-232 port

Specifications
RAID Architecture Daytona RAID Engine
RAID Controller Intel 80321 64-bit RISC 400 MHz Microprocessor
Max. Supported # Drives 5x SATA HDDs
Supported RAID Levels JBOD, 0, 1, 0+1, 3 & 5
Memory Bus 266 MHz PC-2100 Memory
Memory Type Industry Standard DDR ECC SDRAM
Memory 128 MB Standard
Host Bus Interface Ultra-320 SCSI
Disk Bus Interface 1.5-Gbit PHY Serial-ATA
Disk Bus Channels 5 Independent Channels
Host Independent & Transparent Yes
Operating Systems Supported
Windows Server 2003, Windows 2000, MSCS (Microsoft Cluster Server) Windows NT, Windows XP-Pro, Sun-Solaris, linux, true64 Unix, HP-UX, IBM-AIX, SGI-IRIX, MAC-OS, Free BSD, Novell, plus any standard SCSI interface.
HDD supported max. Capacity 500 GB
Maximum Subsystem Capacity 2.5 TB in RAID-0 & JBOD, 2 TB in RAID-5
Drive Temperature Sensors Yes, One per Drive-Slot
Redundant Components Hard Disk Drives
Management RS-232, Web-browser and SNMP
Alerts Audible alarm, LEDs, RS-232, Web-browser, Email and SNMP traps
Power Requirements 110/240V, 47/63 Hz autoswitching (+/-10%)
Power Supply Capacity 1x 150W PSU
Operating Temperature 5

[Dan Riley]

– Of track here for a second, but I must respond to a previous post.

Matt,
I’m the one who used to say all that about tape versus AVID
in 1991. I’m one of the first producers here in Seattle that moved
almost all his show production to AVID offline at that time,
then onlined from the EDL on One Inch or D-2 at the time.
I’m one of the first producers here to use FCP in 2000, version 1.25,
to do the same thing. My online friends were saying it’s junk.
We’ll in some ways it was at the time, but it made me more
productive and I knew it would improve. I was the first of my
friends to move to OSX, etc. etc.
You are way behind the curve making your arguments.

This is different. This is a company, Apple, who claims
to sell a product that is Pro. It is not. It is a good product
but Pro is something special. This is just a marketing term
to Apple. It means nothing else to them, and FCP5 + .02,
shows Apple did not do nearly enough testing of the software
before releasing it. My problems aside, just read any forums
you want and see for yourself. And I pity you if you have to
do an uprez with FCP. What a sham. Media Management is for crap.
This software was designed to do DV all the way through.
Apple has not fixed the basic plumbing necessary to allow it
to smoothly edit in one format and then move the project
to another.

As I’ve said in my other forum responses, I love my Mac and
most of the time I love FCP. But right now I’m pissed off.
They are using the user base as their beta testers.
Apple rushed this release out the door too soon.
This is not “pro” application behavior.

Dan

[Dan Riley]

L isha,

About your RAID setup, I’ve never heard of them.
I’ll read their info. But SCSI controller with SATA drives?
I’ve not followed this developement area.
You may be blazing a trail here and I’m not so sure
that’s a good idea. But like I said, I’ll need to read up on it.

As for your editing style, everyone has their own way.
Mine is probably no better a style, just different.
But after thinking about your particular situation,
with the same audio track and 4 different takes,
I think I see why you might want to try the 16 screens.
But equipment doesn’t always allow us to do what our heads
tell us will work out. And having FCP display 16 at a time
is asking alot, even though Apple says it can do it.
Using the 4 camera, 4 multiclip approach,
it seems to me however, that if you started with a take
you liked, picked the shots you liked, then went back
and decided which ones could be better, then went back
and looked at your other multiclips of the other takes,
found a better shot and used it, that would do it. You’d be done.

Dan

[Bouncing Account needs new email address]

[Danrnw] “You are way behind the curve making your arguments.”

Sorry, I had no idea I was talking to the editor who discovered Avid.

My arguments will never be as up-to-date as yours.

[Dan Riley]

You’re a fun guy.
If that’s what you care to read into what I said,
that’s too bad.

Dan