Dropped Frames in FCP with no solution in sight…

[David Roth weiss]

[Anthony Dias] “although I agree with your statement… …Apple’s marketing makes it seem different:”

I understand that side of things Anthony, but the fact is, the issues you’re having are simply not typical of the vast majority of users. So, when and if a lemon does show up, a hired gun will find a way to fix it. That’s what they do.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.com

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™

A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.

[Michael Gissing]

[Stephen Best] “But perhaps this is something you consider acceptable.”

What I consider acceptable is informed opinion not a rant. For the majority of people on this forum, which I frequent and regularly offer what I hope is helpful opinion, this is not a common problem. For most people the software does as it says. Part of that is following Apple’s guide on preferred hardware. The rest is informed opinion by many here who have noted issues about the optimum way to install, run and maintain an editing system. This is normal so get over it.

I asked for information on your problem and how you went about setting up your system for a very good reason. I am trying to help solve a problem, not just offer a dismissive “Final Cut Pro is the problem..”. That helps no-one and is ignorant opinion.

So either give us something useful to help Anthony solve his problem or get out of the way.

[Jeremy Garchow]

And let’s face it. when it comes to fx and processing, FCP is not an rt powerhouse. You can certainly playback fully rendered timelines and be able to capture video if your system is up to it. Otherwise, no one person save a few hobbyists would use it. There are a million and one reasons for dropped frames some of them have to do with settings in Fcp in addition to hardware.

If you turn off external monitoring, the dripped frames go away, right?

Why are you not using your matrox to monitor? The desktop display is a hack at best.

You have the proper hardware, but you aren’t using it. Any reason for that?

Also, you said you have an external and internal raid, where do you keep your media?

[Anthony Dias]

Hey Jeff, do you have a link to this “Preferred guide”. Perhaps one that was published in 2009?

I realize that my issue is relatively unique and I appreciate everybody’s help. I won’t be back in the studio until tomorrow and then I have to get some work done.

I will be trouble shooting some more and I plan on finding what is wrong with my system and when I do, I will report back.

-Tony

[Anthony Dias]

In my case, external monitoring makes no difference.

I have an HDTV hooked up to the Matrox MXO2 LE via HDMI and I have the SD signal coming out of the Matrox’s CVBS jack and split out to two different old-school Sony NTSC monitors. (I know this isn’t the best monitoring setup, but it’s good enough for what I am doing).

After a fresh restart, I can monitor in 10-bit YUV 1080i (or p) while simultaneously pumping out SD and everything works fine. For about 20 or 30 minutes.

Then, when the dropped frames begin, they happen no matter if external monitoring is on or off.

The reason I find this odd is that in my experience, a computer will do the same task in about the same time and manner over and over again.

So, my guess is that something is going on that is taking resources away from the computer at about the 20 or 30 minute mark.

It isn’t time machine, because I experimented with turning it off for a couple hours.

I don’t know if it is SpotLight kicking in? That thought just now occurred to me.

I also don’t think it’s the FCP backups because they are set to back up a project every 5 minutes.

All my media is split between the two RAID arrays.

When I run the AJA speed test app, my internal raid is about twice as fast as my external raid, but they are both performing well above the requirements of ProRes LT.

Anyway, as I’ve told some of the other people helping me out, I think I have a series of new tests to do which will hopefully weed out my problem.

I will report back as soon as I can.

thanks for your input, 🙂

-Tony

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Anthony Dias] “It isn’t time machine, because I experimented with turning it off for a couple hours.

I don’t know if it is SpotLight kicking in? That thought just now occurred to me.

I also don’t think it’s the FCP backups because they are set to back up a project every 5 minutes.

All my media is split between the two RAID arrays.

When I run the AJA speed test app, my internal raid is about twice as fast as my external raid, but they are both performing well above the requirements of ProRes LT.”

Within this set of responses is where you problem will most likely lie. Having the media split across two sources is where I would start, especially if one is twice as fast as the other. Where are your render files going?

Absolutely all of your media for your projects, (music etc) is on your arrays, right? Nothing on the system drive.

FCP backups, meaning autosave?

How fast are your drives running exactly? Twice as fast as really slow can still be slow.

This is still feeling like a system configuration issue to me.

[Anthony Dias] “I have an HDTV hooked up to the Matrox MXO2 LE via HDMI and I have the SD signal coming out of the Matrox’s CVBS jack and split out to two different old-school Sony NTSC monitors.”

Didn’t you say you also have something hooked up to your Nvidia card? Now, all of the information isn’t lining up.

[Anthony Dias]

The only thing hooked up to the NVIDIA card is a 30″ NEC LCD3090WQXi-BK monitor…

The NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT card came with the computer. It is not a custom option, it was what Apple was offering at the time. Apple also offered an ATI card but I don’t remember the model.

So, in other words, I use the Matrox box to monitor my TV signals. It outputs HD and SD simultaneously.

The NVIDIA card is just for my LCD computer screen.

[Dennis Radeke]

[Michael Gissing] “It might be having FCS and CS5 on the same machine is your problem.”

I have never heard of this being a problem and believe me I would. There are probably hundreds of thousands of Mac users that have both a version of FCP and a version of Adobe Production Premium installed on the same system. While not impossible, I would consider it unlikely in the extreme.

If this were the case, Adobe would have a major problem selling to Mac customers…

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Anthony Dias] “The only thing hooked up to the NVIDIA card is a 30″ NEC LCD3090WQXi-BK monitor…”

I see. I somehow misunderstood. I thought you were using the desktop cinema display option. Sorry about that.

Please report the speed of your drives when you get a chance, and let us know where the render files are going.

Jeremy

[Stephen Best]

David, further to your comment that,

“I know you clearly feel that wrangling a non-linear editing system like FCP should be right in your wheelhouse, but honestly, your frustration with FCP is simply misguided and just plain silly.

“Face it, not everyone in the world is born with the innate ability and know-how to troubleshoot professional non-linear editing systems. Going back over your posts through the years it certainly seems you’ve had troubles with every one of the NLEs you’ve owned…”

I first began using non-linear editing systems when Premiere was the only non-Avid system on the block, and 9 gig hard drives were $2,500 a pop. I’ve used Premiere, Canopus, Sony Vegas, and now Final Cut Pro and, you’re right, none worked as advertised.

I have become very adept at “work arounds”. However, it’s been almost 15 years since the NLEs became endemic. Wouldn’t you think that by now the wizards would have been able to make things work, as advertised?

My particular quibble with Apple is that they sell their products to be machine specific. None of the Windows software NLE companies require that. So, if Apple has control over both hardware and software, and still can’t get it right, it would seem to me it’s for them to solve the problem not users.

In the short term, with deadlines looming the besieged editor needs a solution. But it is ludicrous in my view that Apple’s customers don’t make more of fuss.

Also as I say, Premiere CS5 works as advertised on my stock Apple system and FCP does not. How is it Adobe can create a working system and Apple can’t? Apple, I submit, is a poor vendor when it comes to its NLE offering, and we ought not make apologies for it.

As for my workarounds, I rarely now bother with tweaking machines–it’s a fools quest. I simply use another program that does work, and often mix Windows and Apple systems–Apple, Sony, and Adobe software–to get a production completed.

I’m not so much frustrated, as resigned to the fact that Apple is lousy NLE system vendor, and if FCP, as good as it is in theory, wasn’t the lingua franca of editors I wouldn’t bother with it.

Since its earliest days Apple’s promise has always been one of “no problems” because of its control over both hardware, OS, and software unlike the haphazard vagaries of Window’s systems with their myriad software and hardware suppliers. Apple has broken its promise, and should be held accountable by those whose trust has been betrayed.

Regards
Stephen Best
https://stephenbest.ca