DP shot all RED footage at 59.94. I need normal speed playback. Best practice?

[Jeremy Garchow]

You van always take a proxy file directly to compressor from the Event folder > Transcoded Media.

This is only a test to see if you can gain back some semblance of normal.

You can also export one full ProRes clip out of RedCineX to test.

[Bret Williams]

Ok. So drop it in a 29.97i and speed it up 250%. Shouldn’t it then take it back to the native 59.94 and interlace it?

[Don Smith]

Two things. Open the Red footage in its own timeline from the Event Library. That will create a timeline the same size as the footage. Maybe you can go to Compressor from there.

Also, and this is a shot in the dark, lay the footage in your timeline and highlight it, then go to the Retime icon and select Conform Speed and see what happens. Just throwing that out there. Haven’t tried it myself.

Don Smith
NewsVideo.com

NewsVideo.com

[Bret Williams]

So your footage is natively 60 frames per second, and was overcranked and recorded as 24, right? IOW, it was conformed to 24p. To me, and I just tested it on some 60p footage by conforming to 24 then speeding up, the easiest thing is to work in a 29.97i timeline in X. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong. And it won’t fix the “look” of the footage. Just make it technically feasible.

Put some of your correct 24p footage in the 29.97i timeline and you’ll see X adds the pulldown correctly. (Not like FCP 7 which simply repeates every 4th frame). X gives proper 3:2 interlaced pulldown. Now, drop in the footage that was shot 59.94 and recorded as 24p. You’ll simply need to speed this up to 250%. It’s too bad you can’t dial in a particular speed like 7. But you can drag the retime effect to get roughly the speed you want, but in this case it has to be exactly 250%. What you can do is choose conform in the retime menu and that will give you 125% exactly. Then, trim the clip back to a nice round number like 10 seconds. Then drag the retime effect back until it says the clip is exactly 5 seconds. The retime effect should read 250% speed. Now that you have a clip at 250%, you can copy and paste the effect to all clips in the timeline that require it. No need to repeat the above process.

To confirm that it is properly interlaced simply put the viewer at 100% and turn on “show both fields” in the settings menu at the upper rt of the viewer. As you step through each frame you’ll see that every frame is interlaced and the native speed should be restored. But as Oliver pointed out, this was likely shot with a 1/120th shutter instead of 1/50th and motion blur is probably nonexistent and looks different from the 24p footage. Just depends on the type of footage if they mix and match. With a music video you can do some creative stuff so possibly doesn’t matter. You can also step through your properly shot 24p footage and you’ll see what appears as progressive, progressive, progressive, interlaced, interlaced.

The obvious problem in the end is that you’ll have an interlaced product. If you wanted a 24p product across the board then well… But the 24p footage will still look 24p with pulldown added. It’s just the 59.94 stuff that’s going to look super interlaced TV smooth. But that’s where you have to get creative I guess. When it’s all said and done you’ll have to deinterlace for web versions.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Bret Williams] ” To me, and I just tested it on some 60p footage by conforming to 24 then speeding up, the easiest thing is to work in a 29.97i timeline in X. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong. And it won’t fix the “look” of the footage. Just make it technically feasible.”

It’s not that this is wrong, there are, in my opinion, better ways to go than interlacing. If the footage was normal motion, then yes, you can make 60i footage from 60p, but since this footage is not true 60p, rather overcranked 24p footage, there’s a difference.

Simply speeding up to 250%, leaving the motion set to “Normal” looks pretty good with the overcranked footage I have here, all things considered.

At this point, if you find it necessary, start to mess with Twixtor or optical flow, and even start to combine ReelSmart Motion Blur if you want to try and get things together with motion blur, but all of this is dependent on the original footage. Optical Flow/Twixtor can sometimes cause more issues rather than alleviate them.

Trevor, is it possible for you to post 3 or 4 seconds of footage? Preferably something with motion in it? A 1080 or 720 ProRes movie is fine.

I can also post tests for you, they aren’t from Red, but rather Sony F55.

[Bret Williams]

Definitely if you need a 24p output give that a shot. Just seems like dropping every other frame and then some would leave a strange cadence. I’m very sensitive to that stuttery 24p look, especially when shot at too high a shutter. Even at the movie theater pans driver me crazy sometimes when they’re not super slow. I tend to notice the stutter even on lips in an interview at times. Interlacing is not all bad! 🙂

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Bret Williams] “Definitely if you need a 24p output give that a shot. Just seems like dropping every other frame and then some would leave a strange cadence. I’m very sensitive to that stuttery 24p look, especially when shot at too high a shutter. Even at the movie theater pans driver me crazy sometimes when they’re not super slow. I tend to notice the stutter even on lips in an interview at times. Interlacing is not all bad! :)”

I have aversions to interlacing as you do to 24p. To each their own! ;P 😀

Here are some tests. These are best watched on an external monitor through a broadcast device (AJA, etc).

I included a decently motion heavy shot (subject and camera movement) with tight patterns.

Here’s the source (60 over 24p):

https://madayproductions.com/da_cow/Source_24p.mov.zip

Here’s the source sped up 2.5 times in a 24p timeline with Quality set to “normal”:

https://madayproductions.com/da_cow/Source_250_24p.mov.zip

Here’s the source sped up 2.5 times in a 60i timeline with Quality set to “normal”:

https://madayproductions.com/da_cow/Source_250_60i.mov.zip

And the source set to 40% duration in Compressor with Rate Conversion set to Best:

https://madayproductions.com/da_cow/Source_250_Compressor_24p.mov.zip

Jeremy

[Bret Williams]

It’s actually been a few years since I edited anything interlaced. The majority being 24p with 30p a close second. If I have to integrate interlaced material, I’ve been pretty happy with X’s built in deinterlacing.

[Eric Santiago]

Im not sure if it was mentioned here but cant you export from RCXPro to 23.976?
Im a few hours from a computer to test myself.

[Jeremy Garchow]

[Eric Santiago] “Im not sure if it was mentioned here but cant you export from RCXPro to 23.976?
Im a few hours from a computer to test myself.”

The footage is already 23.976, it’s just overcranked.