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Does This Kill The Mac Pro?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “But of course. I’m just saying, if you need it, it’s there. There’s been a lot of talk of mass exodus to Windows since the FCPX cooties have apparently started ideas of checking in to the Ellis Island of Microsoft for greater opportunities. That’s all.”
I wasn’t trying to be contrary — I just wanted to clarify that a $500 license of Episode on Windows 7 doesn’t get you ProRes encoding. You need a $4,000 license of Episode Engine, and it will only encode ProRes if you’re running Windows Server 2008.
As for seeing what’s available on Windows — why not? Apple has “invited” us all to reconsider our workflows. Why not consider all the options?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “You need a $4,000 license of Episode Engine, and it will only encode ProRes if you’re running Windows Server 2008.”
Im sorry, I should have said Engine. There is a difference. I didnt mean episode or pro.
[Walter Soyka] “As for seeing what’s available on Windows — why not? Apple has “invited” us all to reconsider our workflows. Why not consider all the options?”
Wasn’t that exactly what I was pointing out?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “Wasn’t that exactly what I was pointing out?”
My apologies! I misinterpreted your tone and I thought you were questioning why people would look at Microsoft solutions.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “My apologies! I misinterpreted your tone and I thought you were questioning why people would look at Microsoft solutions.”
Got ya.
I was simply pointing to Windows options and capabilities, but I didn’t say it was easy or cheap!
😉
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[Paul Jay] “Full power DaVinci on an iMac or MacBook Pro.”
Not if my reading on the DiVinci forum is any indication. There was one poster who had his Quadro in a 4x slot so that he could have a RedRocket in the other x16. (the first x16 being taken up by the GPU driving the UI, a 120 I think.)
Well, the up shot was it didn’t work very well, and after switching the RedRocket and the Quadro things worked a lot better.
I’m eager to see someone test this, but I’m not expecting it to work very well.
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So you’re right I checked back with the Apple customer business line and it wasn’t the Apple store they sent me to, it was Melrose Mac, who happens to work with Apple as a reseller.
But in any case, like I said earlier: YES, IF you want a Mac Pro tower with the i7 with and the latest graphics card, etc. excluding the Thunderbolt, it can be made. And like I said earlier, it’s expensive for individuals.
Just call them and ask if you don’t believe me, here’s their address: https://www.melrosemac.com
They are located in Southern California, so shipping would be costly if you’re not there. Again, this is only if you really need to have the Mac Pro Tower for your business. Any by the way, I have run into a couple post houses in Santa Monica and Burbank that mentioned the idea that the cost to upgrade to updated customized Mac Pros vs changing out an entire bay would be more cost efficient. Either way, still too expensive for me.
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At first, John-Michael, I didn’t understand you, but now I see where you are coming from. I apologize.
[John-Michael Seng-Wheeler] “One of those options is being able to chose a GPU. If apple switches to an onboard GPU, as I’m arguing they’re forced to by adding Thunderbolt, then your options will be limited to one or two GPUs which you can’t change later, and unless Apple and nVidia get their act together, that means ATI and therefor no CUDA.”
I guess I don’t understand why you couldn’t change the GPU. Are you saying that the thunderbolt port is the traffic cop in the MacPro?
I don’t think it works like that, or maybe it does?
[John-Michael Seng-Wheeler] “I see Thunderbolt as forcing Apple to drop PCIe… And PCIe is the reason people buy Mac Pros.”
But thunderbolt is part pcie, so how and why would apple drop pcie?
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[Jeremy Garchow] ” “I see Thunderbolt as forcing Apple to drop PCIe… And PCIe is the reason people buy Mac Pros.”
But thunderbolt is part pcie, so how and why would apple drop pcie?”
I miss typed. I meant to say PCIe slots.
Here’s a very long explanation of my logic:
You can’t change the GPU because the Display Port signal output from the GPU needs to be sent to the Thunderbolt controller. There are only three ways to do this, and apple is very, very unlucky to chose two of them.
1) A built in, non-replaceable GPU. This is how all other Thunderbolt equipped Mac’s work. The output from the GPU is sent to the Thunderbolt controller across the circuit board.
2) A Custom PCIe 16x GPU with Thunderbolt ports instead of regular Display Port connectors or DVI connectors. Basically, Apple would take an ordinary ATI GPU card and stick thunderbolt controller chips on it. They’d get their Display Port signal from the ATI GPU and their PCIe connection and feed it all out together. Unfortunately this would limit the speed of the GPU cause the Thunderbolt Controller would be using at least 1/4 of the 16x PCIe connection.
3a) A slight variation on #2, except that the custom GPU would feed it’s Display signal along an internal Display port cable to a Thunderbolt controller somewhere on the Mother board. In this case the GPU card would have no ports on the outside of the computer.
3b) same as 3a, but ordinary GPU is used and the PCIe 16x is moved so that the GPU card is completely contained within the Mac. This way the Display Port cable(s) which drive the THunderbolt controller can be plugged into the normal GPU without exiting the computer.
Those are the possibilities.
Number 3b would be the best for us, as it would allow all current Display Port GPU’s to work.
Number 3a would be ok, but new GPU’s would have to be made, so our options would be limited for a while, since all current GPUs wouldn’t work with Thunderbolt. (It’s posible that Apple would let you use a normal GPU, there by leaving you with THunderbolt ports that serve data but not display information.)
NUmber 2 would also be limiting to us as we’d have to wait for new GPU options as the old ones wouldn’t work with Thunderbolt.
(Again ok if apple lets us use old GPU’s)Number 1 of course would mean no user replaceable GPU.
How likely are each of these?
Well, I’d say that number 1 is likely,
Number 2, while perhaps a great way to get thunderbolt ports on Windows computers, it is totally Un-apple, (I’m sure they want a Thunderbolt port on the front as well as the back, and this option wouldn’t allow that. Also, this would be limited to two thunderbolt ports.) and so I rate that one Very, Very unlikely.
Number 3a would be great, and the most likely choice if apple realizes how much we pros need to be able to swap out GPUs and other things.
Number 3b is unlikely because it would require a redesign and I strongly doubt that Apple wouldn’t redesign the Mac Pro so as to be able to continue offering PCIe slots. I believe that any redesign of the Mac Pro will be Thunderbolt centric and and redesigning the Mac Pro to offer option 3b would be un Apple as that wouldn’t be forward thinking and they’d just have to redesign the Mac Pro again as soon as 100Gb Thunderbolt comes out. Simply put, option 3b requires an extra redesign before apple goes all Thunderbolt.
Keeping PCIe Slots at all also requires an extra redesign before the Mac Pro goes all thunderbolt, and that’s why I said before that I believe that Apple is far more likely to keep the current design until they dump PCIe slots all together.
So the question is, when will that be?
Well, if Apple has any love for us pros that won’t be until 100Gb thunderbolt comes along.
But if the fact that rumors of a small Mac Pro have been going around for months, I think at least a partial dropping of PCIe slots is in order.Unless they have 100Gb Thunderbolt up their sleeves for the upcoming refresh, They’d better chose Option 3a or we’re all going to be stuck for a few years.
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[John-Michael Seng-Wheeler] “Number 1 of course would mean no user replaceable GPU.”
Not necessarily — the potential Thunderbolt Mac Pro could have an integrated graphics card, but if Apple also provides at least one 16x PCIe slot, users could still opt to install and use another graphics card.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
that’s not the same as a user replaceable GPU, Though that would be fine as long as Abobe lets their Mercury playback engine work on a second GPU. (right now it only works on the Primary GPU)
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