Disappearing video clips

[Nigel O’neill]

OK let me clarify. Final Cut Pro and iMovie natively edit MOV like a hot knife thru butter. I have had numerous issues with MOV files and the advice I was given by a Cow leader was to convert them to MP4, be it Sony, DJI drone footage or iPhone footage in MOV.

It’s possible that I am getting source footage from particular devices that Vegas doesn’t like. It’s mainly Sony and DJI files I have had problems with. I can’t comment on Canon files as no one has given me footage shot off a Canon yet! Perhaps it’s my Vegas version which is still on 13 because of the plugins I have and still use.

I been in situations where I have placed multiple MOV clips on the timeline and started editing them, only for them to suddenly become unviewable.

As soon as I convert them from MOV to MP4, my timeline issues disappear.

My system specs: Intel i7 7700k 4.20 GHz, GTX1060, 16GB RAM, Gigabye Z170 HD3, Vegas Pro 13 (x64), Windows 10 x64 Pro, Vegas Production Assistant 1.0, VASST Ultimate S Pro 4.1, VASST Infiniticam 1.7, Neat Video Pro 2.6

[George Dean]

We often talk in containers/wrappers as in .mov and .mp4 and that can be confusing because processing problems within Vegas Pro are not specific to the container/wrapper, rather what codec was used to compress and store the video/audio within the container/wrapper. We should be talking about the contents as in h.264, x264, h.265, MPEG-2. MPEG-4, MJPEG, ProRes, DNx, etc.

Often, however the user is not clear what that codec is and it is easier to refer to it by it’s container such as .mov. And sometimes it’s not even the codec, rather how the source handles it’s own home spun version of the codec.

With that said, we do know that Vegas Pro will not natively handle all flavors of the contents of .mov files, not even version 16, and needs Quicktime to ingest some of those problematic files. We also know that Quicktime in Windows is 32 bit and no longer supported by Apple, and that presents another issue when it needs to be used, as Vegas Pro will only handle a certain limit of those files before strange things happen.

One example……when testing source media from a Canon 5D Mark III, every user who tested including myself, found that 40 clips in the timeline was the limit. Place 41 and Vegas Pro will not view the files, and may actually lock up and/or crash, confirming this problem that ‘Peter-Pappas’ (user at Vegas Creative Forums) brought up. These were MJPEG in an .mov container (and reported here: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/new-canon-5d-mark-iv-camera-files-limit-on-how-many-will-open–103932/). As yet, Magix has not addressed this is Vegas Pro.

If the .mov file contains ProRes it can be ingested with Vegas Pro 15/16 natively without Quicktime so there is no file quantity limit. Some other source media files with the .mov container can be ingested successfully by all versions of Vegas Pro without problems or support from the 32 bit Quicktime. These types really don’t require the q7plug.dll and are just wrapped in .mov.

There are also some files that have the .mp4 wrapper that present problems to Vegas latest versions because when loaded they invoke the so4compoundplug.dll and Vegas chokes on them. In that case simply disabling the so4compoundplug will fix the issue, and by doing so Vegas will reverts back to using the old compoundplug.dll. These are certain flavors of AVC or XAVCS type files. See this thread: https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/avc-xavc-s-issues-in-vp15-16-try-disabling-so4compoundplug-dll–108345/ . But if you have files from a Panasonic GH5, which needs the so4compoundplug.dll you may be forced to convert/transcode one or the other files so they can both be used in the same project!

If anyone is confused yet welcome to the club, I’m a member also!!! Often the simplest work around is to transcode/convert the problematic source media to something like h.264 or Cineform intermediates and get on with their project. Others simply change cameras, but for those working with clients, they are going to have to find a reasonable work around to use the client material.

Also, I should probably add that source media with variable frame rate has always been nasty for NLE’s to handle, as they like constant frame rate. These type files can be in the .mp4 and/or .mov containers using any codec that supports variable frame rate compression, like h.264. In this case, Vegas Pro 16 (build 464 or later) is better at processing than previous versions, but some of these files (and depending on how many and what effects are applied) can even cause problems with VP16. These are often from a screen capture program and smart phone source.

Hope some of this may be of help to others and like always, if I have anything twisted or incorrect, please reply and I will correct any errors.

Many or perhaps most Vegas Pro users don’t have any problems ingesting their source media simply because they are using files which don’t have these problems.

Best Regards……George

[Cindy Hberg]

Well stated, George! I appreciate the details and suspect I will need to come back here from time to time to read them again when I’m on a new project.

Or, I may switch to Premiere. I like that I own my Vegas software; and so I’ve been holding out. But I don’t get the impression that Premiere is so temperamental about which files it will accept. But perhaps it is. Still, the whole monthly subscription issue has me balking.

Again your in-depth knowledge was not only helpful to me, but I suspect many sighs of relief will be emitted by those who come behind me, following the bread trail.

[George Dean]

Thank You Cindy for the kind words.

I switched from Vegas Pro to DaVinci Resolve about a year ago and couldn’t be happier. But, when I was using Vegas and before I started filming in ProRes, I found it easier to transcode/convert all my source media from what ever it was to DNxHD/HR, because it was fast and Vegas had no problems handling it. Sometimes, regardless of how an NLE will process, it is better to have everything in the same codec. Not always, but it sure simplifies it.

Now I film/record using an Atomos Ninja Flame to PreRes 422 10 bit (or UHD) and sometimes to DNxHD/HR, which Resolve ingest without any issue. I also record some action scenes with a GoPro and although Resolve has no issues with that, I will often transcode it to DNx, which is a better color space match to ProRes. That doesn’t correct the GoPro color, rather just put all the source on a somewhat level playing field. I’m sure others may argue it is a waste of time, but while others are having problems, my methods has served me well pretty much problem free.

I wish you the best in your future productions.

Best Regards……George

[Francois Pénzes]

Hi Cindy

We sometimes get comments about other NLE software being better or worse that others. Some are fiercely adamant about how everybody should be using ”XYZ” over anything else. NLE software are just tools and like any tool, you choose the one you are most comfortable with and best suited to your task. I have and use three different ones; Vegas Pro, Hitfilm and DaVinci Resolve. Those get me thru everything that gets thrown at me.

By the way, Hitfilm and Resolve have free versions. Try them out some day.

Cheers !

PC Win 10 Pro 64-bit 16gb Intel® Core™i7-2600k Quad Core 3.40GHz
Cameras: Canon XF305 + Canon XH-A1
Blackmagic HyperDeck Studio Mini
Vegas Pro 16, User since Vegas 3.0

\’\’When the cutting stops, the editing begins…\’\’

[George Dean]

Francois, very well written

++ 1

Best Regards……George

[Nigel O’neill]

[Cindy Hberg] “Or, I may switch to Premiere.”

Just be aware of Premiere’s ransomware subscription model. If you don’t pay, it doesn’t play i.e. if your subscription lapses, you cannot access your projects. Baulk away ☺

DaVinci Resolve is free but has a steep learning curve. It does require a reasonably high end video card.

Be aware that Premiere can be quite finicky when it comes to ingesting media, much moreso than Vegas. Vegas ingest most media well. That’s my experience with Premiere anyway.

When my current Windows editing system dies, I am switching to FCP!

My system specs: Intel i7 7700k 4.20 GHz, GTX1060, 16GB RAM, Gigabye Z170 HD3, Vegas Pro 13 (x64), Windows 10 x64 Pro, Vegas Production Assistant 1.0, VASST Ultimate S Pro 4.1, VASST Infiniticam 1.7, Neat Video Pro 2.6