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Direct a Director (me) with your Expert Knowledge (you)
Hey,
So I know this is a “Tech” forum, and your all crazy editors + V/FX guys and gals that stay up all night working on a single frame of video… wishing that the director had just come and sought out your advice BEFORE he decided to add in that whole David Fincher camera floating through the floor + through a keyhole in a door + into the chamber of a gun … and finally onto the actors eyeball (which obviously shows the reflection of his childhood self)
So here I am …
I’m writing + directing + producing a new short film on 35mm in October. My dilema is that I have no money left for set design + construction … however I do have a kickass studio for free and greenscreens. But its so difficult for me to visually plan FX shots
What I’m thinking about doing is using greenscreens to create psychological palates for my characters (see told you I was a director) Umm think Natural Born Killers … there’s always images of horses and crowds fighting on greenscreens outside of their hotel room window etc.
I have 5 bedrooms in which i would like to include this concept. + I have a candy store where I would probably have to fit the same visual concept in to make the film a whole.
What do you think ? — Is it a ridiculous idea ? Do you have a better idea / usage ? How would you go about approaching this ? Doesn’t it look retarded when you have 80% of a film that is shot normally and then a couple scenes where greenscreens are playing Perlinger Archive Footage ? — Just remember I have no money and a studio with just a greenscreen + props + actors.
If you read all that … you’re the shit
cheers
Dave in Toronto -
16 Replies
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Dave,
As someone who directs and post produces television commercials I can tell you that you can do A LOT with green/blue screens and a talented photoshop/AE/3D artists. Depending on how you want the horses and other stuff flying through the scene you may have to rotoscope that stuff. But almost all movies have many keyed elements in them. While you have no money for certain things now, you may want to find some money to get a good artist to help you composite your final scenes in post.
Seth
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Thanks Seth … and I know your exactly right … I keep getting passed to direct commercials because I don’t have the technical know-how + the reel to land the spots. I’m not much one for promising clients a pot of gold when I’m not positive I can deliver.
So this film is suppossed to be my first real attempt into the world of effects. However I am still in the creative decision making stage — and not the “who the hell is going to make this” stage … so creative advice ONLY from now on. Just joking any/all comments are accepted/appreciated.
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[dirkdiggler83] “I have 5 bedrooms in which i would like to include this concept. + I have a candy store where I would probably have to fit the same visual concept in to make the film a whole.”
I’d like to help give some advice, but I’m not sure I understand the concept entirely.
Are you saying that you already have footage of 5 bedrooms and a candy store in which you’d like to place your actors? What else do you want to do with those spaces?
It’s hard to know what kind of creative advice to give without knowing more about the characters and the goal of the scenes you have left to shoot. Where will these shots fit into the finished project?
Darby Edelen
DVD Menu Artist
Left Coast Digital
Aptos, CA -
I just didn’t want to blabber on if nobody was gonna respond to the thread about the film.
It’s a modern day adaptation of Hansel and Gretel … only hansel and gretel are in their mid-thirties, the parents are sick of them, so they leave them in the ‘big city’ hoping that they will find work … so insues the job hunt + finding a job at a candy store … being taken advantage of by the employer (witch) economically, sexually, mentally … and so on and so on …
And I have a total of 5 different bedrooms in the story (these are my only Interior Locations that I will be shooting in studio) … but now I just need some creative concept to tie them all together.
So the thing is that I have very little resources … to physically create the sets … and I’m having a difficult time trying to come up with something I can do with Greenscreen … Like I’d rather not just use a blank canvas that is a bedroom wall … I figure since I have to set up the greenscreen anyways I might as well get creative with it … and that is where I could use some suggestions …
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A good place to start might be doing some “proof of concept” work. This is commonly done in commercial/film work before committing to very expensive processes.
Since you are shooting 35, you really can’t afford to experiment on set and screw around trying new things. To avoid this, shoot some scenes on DV using any non-actor you have around, and ideally on the same set since it sounds like you have easy access. If you don’t have access to those sets yet, mock up a sloppy set for the sake of experimentation. Key them out using FCP or AE depending on what you have immediate access to, and start playing. This will give you an opportunity to visualize out your ideas, but also discover any problems, pitfalls or downright cheesy ideas.
The final product of your tests can serve as a video storyboard (or just to illustrate concept) for your crew and post people, which will also save you a lot of time and money trying to explain things to everyone.
Brendan Coots
Splitvision Digital
http://www.splitvisiondigital.com -
Cool idea. Just as a thought, another angle you might consider is investing in some 3d-based motion tracking software. This will analyze the shots and export a 3d camera that can be used in After Effects, Maya etc. for adding in effects to your shots.
Using this and some basic After Effects work, you could have wallpaper that is very slowly and subtly melting or moving (think Fear and Loathing), or a million other things that would add visual coolness to your rooms. This would be quite easily if you have reasonably skilled AE guys/gals at your disposal.
Brendan Coots
Splitvision Digital
http://www.splitvisiondigital.com -
hmmm I was kind of just trying to brainstorm and I thought with all you editors infinite wisdom you’d be able to answer the question:
I have 5 bedrooms in the script, no money to rent/build the sets … but I have a studio and greenscreens what would you do?
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Sorry guy I didn’t see the post about the melting wallpaper idea. Thats kind of exactly what I’m going for … only … what happens when I cut from a W.S to a C.U ? Does the image on wall just become distorted or for lack of a better word unviewable because I have changed perspective ? If that’s the case I’m worried that it might be jarring + irritating to the audience.
Then my next concern is should I isolate the greenscreen to a specific area of the frame (meaning should I have half of the wall appear to be normal wallpaper) would that give a sort of perspective to keep your equilibrium when watching it?
I’ll have to re-watch Fear and Loathing I think
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What you are asking people to do is come up with something creative for you or provide you with creative ideas. As a former improv comedian with Second City I can tell you that it is REALLY difficult to be funny when somone says “hey, you do improv? Well, be funny.” We can provide you with 30,000ft. ideas but we aren’t working on YOUR film. You are the director and you have the vision in your mind’s eye. Therefore, you have to be able to convey what is in your mind to film. If you don’t know how or what to do perhaps you are being a little too ambitious. Maybe you should start smaill and leave the VFX out until you have a firm grasp of what you CAN do with the budget with which you have to work. There is nothing wrong with that!
There are many TV spots, movies and music videos that don’t use VFX. They base their spots on a little thing called… a story. Tell your story first and if it is really necessary (not just cool) to have the VFX then figure out what you want, go to a local college or something and find a good photoshop, AE or 3D artist to help. I can PROMISE you that you will find someone who can help to make your vision a reality and they would love to trade their skills, creativity and knowledge for the chance to work on a project. It just may not happen in a timely manner but it will happen.
$.02 more.
Seth
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.
Thomas A. Edison -
What you are asking people to do is come up with something creative for you or provide you with creative ideas. As a former improv comedian with Second City I can tell you that it is REALLY difficult to be funny when somone says “hey, you do improv? Well, be funny.” We can provide you with 30,000ft. ideas but we aren’t working on YOUR film. You are the director and you have the vision in your mind’s eye. Therefore, you have to be able to convey what is in your mind to film. If you don’t know how or what to do perhaps you are being a little too ambitious. Maybe you should start smaill and leave the VFX out until you have a firm grasp of what you CAN do with the budget with which you have to work. There is nothing wrong with that!
There are many TV spots, movies and music videos that don’t use VFX. They base their spots on a little thing called… a story. Tell your story first and if it is really necessary (not just cool) to have the VFX then figure out what you want, go to a local college or something and find a good photoshop, AE or 3D artist to help. I can PROMISE you that you will find someone who can help to make your vision a reality and they would love to trade their skills, creativity and knowledge for the chance to work on a project. It just may not happen in a timely manner but it will happen.
$.02 more.
Seth
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.
Thomas A. Edison
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