Delivering in multiple frame rates! (Conform with AE)

[Ivan Myles]

Try frame blending with pixel motion on the 25/29fps test shots to see if there is a difference. Both should look good. Alternatively, is 50fps an option? What about shooting twice to get a set of shots at each speed?

[Noah Campeau]

Thanks Ivan, Yes both seem to look fine.

Shooting at 50fps is an option, then conforming down. Cant really shoot twice as both deliveries have to be exactly the same. I will need to edit in one timecode, then when the edit is signed off I will have to make another version in the different frame rate. This is the workflow I have in mind.

[Ivan Myles]

I like frame blending with pixel motion because missing frames are interpolated from the existing frames. This technique yields the smoothest motion but requires additional processing.

With a 50fps source file frames can be dropped without extra processing:

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRST @ 50 fps
A-C-E-G-I-K-M-O-Q-S- @ 25 fps
A-C-EF-H-JK-M-OP-R-T @ 30 fps

But with low motion you might be fine with a 25, 29, or 30 fps file. Use the option that works best with your footage and processing requirements.

[Walter Soyka]

[noah campeau] “I have done some tests, where I have filmed a slow spinning object at 25 and 29.97, imported into AE and conformed both clips to the opposing frame rates.”

What specifically do you mean by “conformed both clips to the opposing frame rates?” What exact steps are you taking in Ae?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Noah Campeau]

To elaborate on this, I have shot the same scenario at 25 and 29.97. I then imported both, and conformed the 25 to 29.97 and the 29.97 to 25. In the past I have conformed 25 up to 29.97 and have had choppy playback issues. But in this particular case, both options seem to play fine.

[Walter Soyka]

[noah campeau] “I have shot the same scenario at 25 and 29.97. I then imported both, and conformed the 25 to 29.97 and the 29.97 to 25. In the past I have conformed 25 up to 29.97 and have had choppy playback issues. But in this particular case, both options seem to play fine.”

Just to make sure we’re on the same page, you’re saying you’ve:

1) Shot footage at 25 fps
2) Imported the footage into Ae
3) Changed its framerate in Interpret Footage from 25 to 29.97

If so, you are actually speeding up the footage and shortening its duration. Is that ok? Have I misunderstood what you are doing above?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]

[Noah Campeau]

Yes that is correct. I tried shooting at both frame rates to see if one conformed better than the other.

This is the workflow I have in mind going forward:

– Shoot at 60fps
– Conform footage down to 29.97
– Edit and grade footage at 29.97
– Render

To make the 25fps deliverable:
– Import and conform 29.97 fps footage to 25fps
– Time stretch footage to match the duration of the original 29.97 piece

Without trying it, I think this seems like my best option.

[Tristan Summers]

Hello Noah!
You have learned well young Jedi
You could shoot 24 fps use normal 3:2 pull down to get the 29.97 and slow it down for 25.

this is how all films are done.

But say it was for something that needed fast motion, you could double that to 48. Then you are in the Hobbit territory.

if you have the budget, shoot it 60p and get it converted at Stanley. It isn’t that expensive.

I did that for multinational delivery for Nokia.

after effects retiming never really works for me but if you use time warp instead it is often better

do it by setting actual frame numbers.

or download Fusion and figure out how to do it there.

Tris

[Tristan Summers]

Ivan is basically describing 3:2 pulldown
I have some friends with a Scarlet who may be able to help and maybe cheaper and more competent than some of the other more traditional photography options…
I would make the whole thing at 60fps and send it out of house for conversion.
StanleyProductions are the go to place in Soho and not actually that expensive.
But it must be a process people have cracked.
There used to be a process in compressor that was pretty good.

There should be a twistor / kronos ( Timewarp) preset

Anyone?

It is also possible, when going 24 to 25 to time stretch the audio but keep the pitch the same, but you may need to use compressor
For animations I often render each thing separately, but for indents, clients have never understood the need.

Right now a 1080p24 master is enough and easiest to conform as the interpretation rules are already in place…

[Walter Soyka]

[Tristan Summers] “You could shoot 24 fps use normal 3:2 pull down to get the 29.97 and slow it down for 25.”

I strongly agree that this is the way to go.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]