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Damn you TSA – the 16gig NewMacbook Pro limit is about battery capacity?
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[Tim Wilson] “NONE OF THIS IS HUGE. Please don’t accuse me of accusing Apple of cheating customers because of an uncharacteristically out-of-sync release. “
I’m sorry, I didn’t accuse YOU personally, I was taking about the greater internet backlash that Apple isn’t including all the old ports on the computer and they are making you buy dongles/cables/whatevers that are unnecessary, the processors aren’t the newest, 16GB limit, who needs a Touch Bar, the iPhone 7 headphones don’t work, all for $400 more in starting price, and 20% less volume of an already slim and light machine.
The ironic thing about this laptop is that it seems there’s constant pressure and expectation on Apple to create new things and innovate, yet there’s also a sense that they can’t change a thing and most things should remain the same.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “I have two Thunderbolt 2 ports on my laptop now, as long as everything has a pass through, I am not short ports. “
And I think that’s the key thing. As long as everything has pass through you are fine, but not everything is going to have pass though. This will impact some people more than others.
As I said previous, my beef really isn’t with USB-C or just the four ports (would three ports on each side really be so detrimental?). It’s with the total package; the ports, the price, and the internal specs. I think the price cuts on the dongles and the LG monitors is a mea culpa from Apple. Give me a lower price, more ports or better internal specs and I would have pre-ordered day one.
[Jeremy Garchow] “The ironic thing about this laptop is that it seems there’s constant pressure and expectation on Apple to create new things and innovate, yet there’s also a sense that they can’t change a thing and most things should remain the same.”
Yes and no. Many people like Apple products because ‘they just work’ and Apple typically presents a more elegant solution than other companies which means Apple can get away with not being first to market. The last two big product releases (iPhone 7) and the new MBPs don’t present elegant solutions (at least not with products that exist today). The staleness of so many of Apple’s products doesn’t help matters either.
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I really would’t have cared if the new Mac pro was any slimmer than the previous one
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And then there’s this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XSC_UG5_kU
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
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[Andrew Kimery] “And I think that’s the key thing. As long as everything has pass through you are fine, but not everything is going to have pass though. This will impact some people more than others.”
But TB3 represents a step forward, and it seems to really just be beginning. Maybe I am making too much of this, but having power being able to run from nearly anywhere is huge. The TB2 products that don’t have passthrough now are passive devices, meaning they do not have external power and rely on power from the TB cable, TB3 could potentially solve this since the power can be introduced almost anywhere in the chain, not just from your computer or computer’s power source, which makes terminated devices irrelevant. Also, again, I have never run out of ports on my Thunderbolt 2 laptop, I can’t imagine adding two more ports, each capable of more bandwidth and connectivity, is going to somehow be worse. Also, whenever the time comes, I won’t buy Apple dongles, as they don’t fit in a passthrough environment. Having one dongle per function is useless. You said the price drop is a mea culpa… mmm kinda, I think it’s not an admission of error, but an encouragement to try it out, as controversial as it may seem.
It’s understandable that a person might not want a huge entity to make these decisions for you, I get it.
This morning, I was frustrated with the people that are still clinging on to enabling daylight savings time in this time zone. Obviously, they don’t have little children.
[Andrew Kimery] “The last two big product releases (iPhone 7) and the new MBPs don’t present elegant solutions (at least not with products that exist today). The staleness of so many of Apple’s products doesn’t help matters either.”
But isn’t that the proof right there? The new solutions are ‘inelegant’ because they don’t have an automatic connection to older technology, including Apple tech. So in order of them to be ‘connectually’ elegant (and still feel new), they need to have everything that your old computer has, plus anything new.
[Andrew Kimery] ” Give me a lower price, more ports or better internal specs and I would have pre-ordered day one.”
Price aside for a second, the new laptops are expensive, what spec wasn’t hit besides what’s on paper? What are you upgrading from? As much as I think I’d like the Touch Bar, I am not upgrading my laptop at this point. I have a 2013 rMBP, and it still does really well for what I need it to do. I edit everything I want on my laptop besides RAW. Do you need to do RAW on a laptop, hence the internal specs disappointment?
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[Jeremy Garchow] “But TB3 represents a step forward, and it seems to really just be beginning.”
I agree, and maybe I’m not giving it enough credit. The total package, at first blush, is just a bit of a let down to me. In a year or two more USB-C devices will exist so the port thing will be less of an issue, but I’m looking for something that can hit the ground running for my workflows today.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Obviously, they don’t have little children.”
lol. Couldn’t agree more.
[Jeremy Garchow] “But isn’t that the proof right there? The new solutions are ‘inelegant’ because they don’t have an automatic connection to older technology, including Apple tech. So in order of them to be ‘connectually’ elegant (and still feel new), they need to have everything that your old computer has, plus anything new.”
It’s certainly a tricky line to balance, but it’s not like I’m mad at them for not having a FW800 port. Why not a mix of ports like on the previous models and the nMP? You said you never ran out of ThB 2 ports so with the increased bandwidth and flexibility of ThB 3 even just two sound like they would be a boon. In a year or two, once native USB-C devices became more common, Apple could go straight USB-C.
As a not-necessary-pro example, if you want to use your Lightening headphones with your iPhone 7 while charging it via the new MacBook Pro you need three adapters to make it happen. You also can’t use the same headphones on the MBP and the iPhone 7 w/o an adapter. The mojo seems off, at least for this round.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Price aside for a second, the new laptops are expensive, what spec wasn’t hit besides what’s on paper? What are you upgrading from? As much as I think I’d like the Touch Bar, I am not upgrading my laptop at this point. I have a 2013 rMBP, and it still does really well for what I need it to do. I edit everything I want on my laptop besides RAW. Do you need to do RAW on a laptop, hence the internal specs disappointment?”
I’m coming from a 2011 MBP and the RAM capped at 16gig is probably my biggest single gripe on the new machines. I’ve had 16gig of RAM in my MBP for years and when running multiple apps I chew through it pretty fast. I wish Apple would have kept the thickness and battery the same size so they could’ve used better GPUs, CPUs and more RAM.
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[Andrew Kimery] “[Jeremy Garchow] “The new solutions are ‘inelegant’ because they don’t have an automatic connection to older technology, including Apple tech. So in order of them to be ‘connectually’ elegant (and still feel new), they need to have everything that your old computer has, plus anything new.””
I hope you don’t include me in that characterization. I’m the one who keeps encouraging companies to burn backward compatibility to the ground. ?
No, the Apple non-solutions are inelegant because the two newest flagship devices can’t connect to each other with a cable included in either box, and there’s currently no way for two of the three newest devices to connect AT ALL.
This will of course be solved in due time, but the whole point of “we’re one company and we control the entire ecosystem” implies a commitment on Apple’s part to make sure that their newest stuff DOES work together.
Of course, it’s worth noting that Apple hasn’t suggested anything of the sort. There’s a reason why there’s never been a commercial with a Mac and an iDevice in them at the same time.
There’s a meaningful overlap between the intended audiences, but if you imagine them as a Venn diagram, the largest part of the iDevice audience does NOT coincide with the Mac audience. Associating them too closely would be a disaster, which is why Apple launched them at separate events. Apple isn’t willing to gamble the largest source of its income against its smallest customer base, nor should they.
But I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect Apple to have made sure that the three hardware products (phone, buds, mbp) they introduce in the same fortnight would include interconnectivity in the box, if not also in the store at launch.
I don’t think that this is especially controversial. It’s certainly well within the mainstream of the response from Apple’s paying customers. It’s why Apple responded so quickly with unprecedented price reductions across their “suite” of adapters, of which I’ll wager that many of the most popular will be for connecting new devices to new devices. The sale doesn’t appear to have been part of the rollout at all, but a tacit acknowledgement by Apple that they tripped over their own ottoman.
Because if they HAD rolled out the sale at the same time as the products, AND included a yet-to-be-created adapter to connect two of their three newest products as part of that sale (can’t; doesn’t exist), that would have been almost as elegant as including a cable or adapter that would have connected the two most expensive ones in the box of at least one of ’em.
Almost. ?
But it again acknowledges that the unified Apple ecosystem is something of a myth. (Again not dinging Apple for this. They’ve never claimed it that I can recall.) Not enough iDevice users are using Macs, and I bet you a real pony that not enough Mac users are using iDevices* (or at least projected to buy new ones) to make this even vaguely justifiable financially, even if it would have offered more satisfying optics,
*That is, to try to restate an earlier point more clearly, of COURSE there’s an overlap in the customer bases, but even a cursory look at the numbers makes obvious that plenty of Mac folks are using Androids, and plenty of Windows folks have iDevices. It’s folly to treat them as the same market, which is why Apple doesn’t.
Still doesn’t change that they missed the chance to sync up their newest devices and connectors, and had to retreat into price cuts for accessories after getting publicly called on it.
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[Tim Wilson] “here’s a reason why there’s never been a commercial with a Mac and an iDevice in them at the same time. “
Haven’t you learned to never say never, Tim? ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTLFrFoEa4I
Apple’s ecosystem is going wireless/to the Cloud, so maybe they just don’t care as much if they wired connections get clunky as they get phased out?
For example, Apple’s Continuity feature(s) is billed as allowing your to “move seamlessly between your devices with Handoff, Universal Clipboard, iPhone Cellular Calls, SMS/MMS messaging, Instant Hotspot, and Auto Unlock.”
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204681
All of these features are Apple specific so you can’t do them with an iPhone and Windows combo. The iDevices certainly don’t require other Apple hardware to work, but there are some cherry-on-top features that only work in the Apple ecosystem.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “But TB3 represents a step forward, and it seems to really just be beginning. “
And so, we begin the beginning: https://bizon-tech.com/us/bizonbox3-egpu.html/
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[Andrew Kimery] ” The total package, at first blush, is just a bit of a let down to me. In a year or two more USB-C devices will exist so the port thing will be less of an issue, but I’m looking for something that can hit the ground running for my workflows today.”
Honestly, man, a 2011 MBP and a 2016 MBP will be entirely different machines. I have no idea what workflow you could not do on a 2016 MBP that you can do on a 2011 MBP. You have so many more options, so much more speed, and unless you are rendering 3D CG, and doing heavy RAW rendering, you will be good to go.
[Andrew Kimery] “As a not-necessary-pro example, if you want to use your Lightening headphones with your iPhone 7 while charging it via the new MacBook Pro you need three adapters to make it happen. You also can’t use the same headphones on the MBP and the iPhone 7 w/o an adapter. The mojo seems off, at least for this round.
“I don’t think I have ever used my iPhone headphones on my laptop. This is really a non-issue unless you carry your laptop without a backpack of some sort? I carry around my trusty MDR7506s everywhere my laptop goes. I also plug them in to phone when I need it. I can’t stand the Apple headphones and I am glad they made them obsolete on almost anything else because they aren’t deserving of the port. There I said it! ?
[Andrew Kimery] “I’m coming from a 2011 MBP and the RAM capped at 16gig is probably my biggest single gripe on the new machines. I’ve had 16gig of RAM in my MBP for years and when running multiple apps I chew through it pretty fast. I wish Apple would have kept the thickness and battery the same size so they could’ve used better GPUs, CPUs and more RAM.”
Again, it’s going to be an entirely different machine. The ridiculous fast SSD will make up for any pageouts if you get that far, and as I inked to before, there’s an eGPU case for TB3 already available for preorder. You can rack up more GPU than ever before on a laptop.
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