Cutting Multicam Performance NIGHTMARE….Panny HVX-200 Footage..Help Pls…

[Brian FitzGerald]

[paul] “there are really weird glitches in some of the clips…digital break ups…..and even some weird thing where the shot gets flopped back and forth??!!!!”

Boy, I don’t know about that stuff. It sounds like something is wrong with the Firestore system. I never have anything like that happen with straight p2 recording and downloading to FCP.

The other problem’s fix is fairly easy, though.

In order to sequence the cuts back to their original shooting order you import them into FCP and then in the logging bin you order them by their “inpoint” timecodes rather than the default ordering by name which will make you crazy.
(somebody else in this forum gave me this workaround and it solved the problem for me)

Brian FitzGerald
FitzVideo.com

[Paul Harb]

Ya, the Firestore solution is crap, it has ruined this footage which is really too bad….it is a big band….great footage…..it even glitched on the audio straight from the board…terrible….

Im not sure I understand what you mean by the in points…..you mean eyeball something in the footage and create an in point using FCP then pick use in points for multiclip function?….is so that would work great, however there are glitches thr0ough the footage…so it constantly goes out of sync all over the place….

[Noah Kadner]

Wow- sounds like a real nightmare. Hope you will get in touch with the Firestore folks so that they can diagnose the issues and hopefully prevent others from going through this kind of trouble.

Noah

[Barry Green]

Firestore has released a firmware patch that is supposed to fix the dropout issue; be sure to download the upgrade.

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[Rennie Klymyk]

[paul] “….there are really weird glitches in some of the clips…digital break ups…..and even some weird thing where the shot gets flopped back and forth??!!!! “

Why not just print to tape and make it really loud, maybe no one will notice.

If it wasn’t recorded in one nonstop stream from each camera or you can’t just sync up all 4 streams due to camera pauses, stops or just plain tc breaks or glitches, it may help to cut one song at a time in the timeline. Hopefully one of the cameras has an uninterupted stream for a base track, possibly a wide safe shot. Murphy’s Law will inevitably apply here. The c/u cam where you really need lip sync will be the worst. By starting at the front and going song by song you may see a pattern develop. IE: cam 2 is 20 frames off; cam 3 is 10 seconds off and cam 4 is 15 sec off at the end of each song. It all helps sync up faster. You may discover one camera is really crappy footage due to a bad angle, exp. or whatever so you don’t look at it till you’re stuck.
I hope the firestore doesn’t automatically break the video into clips instead of capturing one long stream.

“everything is broken”

[Brian FitzGerald]

[paul] “Im not sure I understand what you mean by the in points…..you mean eyeball something in the footage and create an in point using FCP then pick use in points for multiclip function?….”

Maybe I misunderstood when you said “.has like 100 clips for each camera angle…”. I assumed you mean that each camera was stopping and starting each time they grabbed a shot and therefore generated 100 clips from each angle that you could not conform linearly. IF that is the case, then you look at the “In” points or “starting” timecode of each clip and order them that way and then they will all be in the correct order of the event.

If that is not what happened then I suspect the Firestore “thought” that is what happened and broke your piece into “100 clips” and you still might be able to do the same thing.
Yesterday I read on another forum that there is reason to believe there are bad firewire cables being sold that allow external RF to intrude on the signal thus corrupting the stream. The guy suggested some kind of “solid core” cables or something as a fix – that’s all I remember about the thread. I think it is on the “2-Pop” forum site. Do a search for Firestore and you should find it if you want.

Here’s a thought for you.
A few years back I edited a “live” music video that I shot with one camera in a club over the space of three nights of performances. From that I took three of their songs I liked and re-synched the video over their STUDIO recordings of the band with some “live” audio mixed in. People did not know. Even when I told them what I did they did not see what I was talking about AND this is regardless that the tempo of the live performance was quite different than it was in the studio.
If your guys shot reaction shots of the crowd and action shots of the drummer and other players when they are not singing you can cover loads. You just need a clean audio track (or one you can patch together). For instance, almost nobody knows what a guitar player is playing with their chord hand as long as the “strum” hand is in synch. Slo-mo and efx are in order also.

Don’t give up. You can do it.

Brian FitzGerald
FitzVideo.com

[Christopher Wright]

I just shot (4) 1.5 hour dance performances back to back every night for four nights on a firestore 100 in Film mode 720P24fps with no issues whatsoever. The footage looks awesome and I have not seen a single dropout. The Firestore solution rocks. As usual I expect newbies who have no experience with the format or syncing up the Firestore with the proper settings as your main problem, not the “firestore solution.” The problem always is with lower cost access to professional tools, you also get people with little experience using them.

[Mitch Ives]

Christopher,

FWIW, those of us with a great deal of experience using Firestore (and the other) FW hard drive recorders (since the very beginning) KNOW that these things have issues. Just because you got it to work once isn’t necessarily cause to dance in the aisle. They were a great idea when also using tape as backup, but everyone I know that has a lot of experience with these, gets real nervous at the notion of it as the ONLY recording medium. We’ve all been burned on this.

I have told everyone (including Panasonic) that I have zero interest in the Firestore or similar FW recorders. That isn’t inexperience talking, it’s a lot of serious experience talking.

Christopher, I’m glad it worked for you, but I wouldn’t be breaking out the champagne just yet. Personally, I’ll be waiting for something that isn’t FW based. Something with locking cables and no FW codec chips getting in the way. In other words, something as solid as P2. One can only hope the Cineporter (or something like it) really does make it to market…

Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.com

Apple Certified Trainer: Final Cut Pro 5

[Matt Mcewen]

Hello,

There was an update provided that fixed the drop-out problem I think you are referring to. Here is the thread I posted to the FireStore forum. Also, when you do the update, make sure you do the System Reset (Utilities Menu) for the change to take effect.

Hope that helps.

Matt McEwen

FS-100 Update Now Available
Recently there have been reports from some FS-100 users of drop-outs during recordings. Unfortunately some units shipped from our production plant with an incorrect FireWire bridge chip configuration. Focus apologizes for this problem and inconvenience, and we assure you that these drop-outs are in no way related to drive performance or future reliability, but rather a simple software error which resulted in a buffer overrun.

We have corrected this problem and posted a software update here:

https://www.focusinfo.com/support/downloads.asp

We recommend that ALL FS-100 users load this updated software, as there is no harm in doing so even if your unit is set correctly. Please download the new software (follow the software update instructions on the READ ME enclosed in the zip file) and then do a System Reset (follow instructions on page 72 of the User Guide).

Best regards,

Focus Enhancements

[Christopher Wright]

I guess I have been lucky. This is not my first and only shoot with the Firestore 100. I also have used the Nnovia A2D for capturing SD footage for years and have yet to be burned. I am very careful to tether the cables with velcro so there is never strain on either end. Maybe that is why I have had a 100% success rate all these years. In my market I have had to deal with several camera newbies who seldom really know how to properly match settings on any of the new HD and HDV camcorders, but got them because they were so cheap. Many people find out too late that their camera ops don’t know what they are doing. Over in the FCP forum, one producer is getting a mix of 1080i60fps, 720P24P and under/over-cranked 720PN footage from camera operators who don’t know what they are doing. So far the Firestore solution has been ideal for me. I am also anxiously awaiting the release of the Ciprico unit, as I want to take full advantage of the HVX 200 in the native shooting mode. Until the P2 cards come down to a reasonable price, I’m afraid I’ll have to wait on those!