cross platform archiving

[Frank Gothmann]

Hi Herb,

no, BRU archives cannot be read under windows. You have a couple of options. Use BRU and on the Win machine you could install a small Linux partition (or use a USB stick). There is a cheap BRU edition that runs under Linux that can do the same as BRU on the Mac. You can access your tapes with it without problems. Sounds complicated but it really isn’t. Just a reboot.
You can also use a backup solution on the Win side but that won’t be compatible under OSX. There are loads, some quite cheap.

If you want true cross platform compatibility you could use LTFS (You need a drive from IBM as it has LTFS for all platforms. HP has anounced but not yet released LTFS support for windows, it currently works only with Linux and Mac). Via LTFS you can simply drag and drop to your drive. BRU also supports LTFS so you should be able to use BRU and LTFS on the Mac side while just accessing the tapes via LTFS on Win (I personally haven’t used BRU with LTFS, just BRU or LTFS so you might need to ask Tolisgroup about specifics).
If I were you I’d look into basic LTFS. If you find you need some software to manage things for you, you can then download the trial apps and see what works best for you once the physical tape drive is with you.

[Andrew Richards]

BRU writes a proprietary format by default, but you can and should write with LTFS if you anticipate leaving the Mac platform. IBM’s single-drive LTFS implementation works on Windows 7. Linux has the most complete support for LTFS from all the vendors offering it (HP, IBM, and Quantum). Make sure the drive you get for BRU has Windows driver support on Win7. You might not be able to use the same SAS card for BRU on the Mac (ATTO) and IBM LTFS on Windows (LSI is the only vendor qualified by IBM for LTFS on Win7).

Of course, you can always just keep your Mac around just for BRU duty and share its disk out to Windows. It will take longer to get files to tape that way though.

Best,
Andy

[Herb Sevush]

Andrew –

Thanks for the reply, even though the info is more than a mite depressing. Basically I can’t do anything till I know my long term platform requirements, and since Apple never talks, I can’t really plan. The idea of keeping a MacPro alive long term just to handle my tape backups seems both risky and a major waste of time and space. Do you know if the Cache-A system is similarly not cross platform?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Frank Gothmann]

[Andrew Richards] “You might not be able to use the same SAS card for BRU on the Mac (ATTO) and IBM LTFS on Windows (LSI is the only vendor qualified by IBM for LTFS on Win7).”

I was told by my VAR that ATTOs new PCIe3 controller ESAS-H6F0 will work fine everywhere, including a conbination of RAID boxes and LTO drive (that was a problem with the previous ATTO I am currently using with the drive which is why they told me).

[Herb Sevush]

Frank –

Thanks for the info, even though it’s definitely not what i was hoping to hear. In researching LTFS on the web I saw a number of posts, dated from January 2011, that complained about LTFS accuracy and performance, especially dealing with large numbers of files. is this still the case, or do you find it stable and suitable for important backups?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Frank Gothmann]

[Herb Sevush] “Thanks for the info, even though it’s definitely not what i was hoping to hear. In researching LTFS on the web I saw a number of posts, dated from January 2011, that complained about LTFS accuracy and performance, especially dealing with large numbers of files. is this still the case, or do you find it stable and suitable for important backups?
“

I haven’t experienced any issues. LTFS is something a lot of the big players seem committed to so if anything my best guess is it will get more implemented and more widespread. The danger of LTFS is that people may be tempted to use it the way they’d use a regular hard drive and that can lead to performance issues because it’s linear after all. If you copy 10 folders to the tape, you can then, a month later, open the 1st folder and drop more files into it. So while all the data of folder 1 is written at the start of the tape, the new stuff is written at then end so when you restore the tape has to go from the start, then move right to the end, and then rewind back to the start again although it seems to be bundled together in 1 folder.
So if you you do it in such incremental ways your tape gets totally fragemented and it has to move back and forth constantly to pick up the data rathern than just flow from start to end.
That’s not how I have written to LTFS though and one shouldn’t. I usually wait till I have enough stuff to fill a tape, then I simply drop everything on it so the tape is written in a linear fashion and backups are equally linear.
If you want something more managed, I’d look into BRU with LTFS or think about the BRU/MAC BRU/Linux variant. Linux can cerate a bootable USB stick with one click and operation is dead simple.

[Andrew Richards]

[Herb Sevush] “Do you know if the Cache-A system is similarly not cross platform?”

Cache-A is totally cross-platform since it is essentially a NAS server with a built-in LTO-5 drive and management software. You mount it as a network share and it does all the work. They are more expensive than BRU-PE bundles, but they are a lot less hassle and they don’t tie up your workstation while they are working like BRU would. Cache-A is managed via a web interface and also writes open standard tar or LTFS. It is as cross-platform as it gets!

If you don’t mind the higher price, Cache-A is going to be a lot less hassle. The guys from Cache-A also frequent this forum and are very supportive.

Best,
Andy

[Andrew Richards]

[Frank Gothmann] “I was told by my VAR that ATTOs new PCIe3 controller ESAS-H6F0 will work fine everywhere, including a conbination of RAID boxes and LTO drive (that was a problem with the previous ATTO I am currently using with the drive which is why they told me).”

I was just going by what IBM had qualified for their LTFS on Win7, which is LSI only today. It might work with ATTO, but IBM doesn’t officially support it is all.

Best,
Andy

[Herb Sevush]

[Frank Gothmann] “I’d look into BRU with LTFS or think about the BRU/MAC BRU/Linux variant. Linux can cerate a bootable USB stick with one click and operation is dead simple.”

I don’t see how the linux would work for me. My raid will be attached to whatever computer is hosting the LTO drive. If I booted to Linux I would loose access to the raid, so that doesn’t work. The BPU / LTFS seems a better avenue, my storage needs are large dead simple, I’m just looking for something that can migrate with me if I change platforms.

Thanks again for the response.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
—————————
nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf

[Frank Gothmann]

[Herb Sevush] “I don’t see how the linux would work for me. My raid will be attached to whatever computer is hosting the LTO drive. If I booted to Linux I would loose access to the raid, so that doesn’t work. The BPU / LTFS seems a better avenue, my storage needs are large dead simple, I’m just looking for something that can migrate with me if I change platforms.”

Why would you loose access to your raid? Support for raid cards under Linux is pretty much top of the line. Virtually all raid controllers work out of the box without any drivers at all (Areca etc.) in a modern kernel. You may want your raid in NTFS format though if you want to read and write to it.
I am in a similar situation as you are regarding your question, gradually moving to windows with my shop one machine at a time as things get replaced btw.