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Critique sought on my equipment picks for Hi8 analog to digital transfers
This thread has most of the information I need, but I’d like to get more specifics:
https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/3/876054#876138
Currently, I have probably thirteen hours of Hi8 footage, with stereo audio. The output will go something like this: Hi8 > DV > Firewire card > PCI bus > software capture > edit clips > render > online distribution.The Sony CCD-TRV87 camcorder originally used lacks a stereo audio output, so I’ve got to buy a Hi8 deck or a camcorder with stereo output; I noticed during the last transcode attempt (when I backed the Hi8 tapes up to VHS), running the camera off of battery resulted in less electronic noise than running it off of the AC adapter. I’m planning on using S-video, since it has higher quality than a composite RCA output. As for particular camcorders, I’m looking for the least expensive camcorder or video deck that can output stereo audio and S-video. The Sony DCR-TRV320 would be at least $75; it has what appears to be a 35mm TRS to stereo RCA cable. If it’s a TRS cable, I could skip several steps of signal-to-signal degradation and plug it in to the onboard motherboard audio line-in port, assuming that it can capture stereo input–it’s unknown to me how I could find out if it’s stereo or not. I’ve confirmed from the user manual that it does support analog Hi8. It also has a 4-conductor FireWire 400 cable as a bonus; I’m wary about using it as the transfer method because: first, it’s Sony’s proprietary i.link version, which might be less than compatible with any cable or card adapters to the larger FireWire 400 format, or even if it is physically compatible, might not be supported by any capture software; and second, because doing the transfer from analog to digital in-camera might introduce noise, and the capture quality might be inferior to what I would get from a separate DV cam pass-through. The lowest quality and cheapest method would be to buy the stupid DCR-TRV320 and use the stereo output and S-video sent to my set top box to record a bunch of DVDs on the highest setting of their proprietary or low-quality format is.
https://www.managemylife.com/mmh/owner_manuals/16508/SONY-Digital-Camcorder-L0604059
Here’s a few listings I’m considering on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Handycam-DCR-TRV320-Camcorder-Silver-/281218932660?pt=Camcorders_Professional_Video_Cameras&hash=item4179f45fb4
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Handycam-DCR-TRV320-Camcorder-Bundle-w-Bag-xBatt-and-Memory-/161161591584?pt=Camcorders_Professional_Video_Cameras&hash=item2585fabb20
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Handycam-DCR-TRV320-Digital8-Hi8-Camcorder-Lenmar-Mach1-Speedcharger-Extras-/190983421507?pt=Camcorders_Professional_Video_Cameras&hash=item2c777fbe43Now, for the analog to digital pass through. This is assuming I don’t go with the i.link output of the TRV320. I’m going to need a camera with stereo RCA input (or TRS, if I’m going with the TRV320). The creativecow thread mentioned at the top of this post recommended the Pyro A/V Link, which are going for around $30 on eBay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/PYRO-A-V-Link-/161160780604?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2585ee5b3c
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ADS-Pyro-A-V-Link-Video-Capture-Device-API-557-/181270238551?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a348c5557
I couldn’t find a single DV camcorder under $300 that met the requirement for input and output ports, so I’m even more open to suggestions on which DV camcorder I should get.For IEEE/DV support, I’d have to get a PCI add-in card. They’re about $5 on eBay. If i.link isn’t incompatible with 4-conductor FireWire 400 ports, and if i.link doesn’t degrade the quality in-camera I could skip getting a DV cam or analog to digital converter. The card shouldn’t need any special consideration for Win8.1 x64.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Look-VIA-VT6306-3-1-Port-IEEE-1394-FireWire-PCI-Controller-Card-/301026757709?pt=US_Internal_Port_Expansion_Cards&hash=item461697cc4dCapture, edit, render, and upload time. I have Premiere 5.5, and I’ve used maybe a dozen different Blender versions to do video composition (also a bit of VirtualDub). The resolution will be 720×480 at least 7200 Kb/s (source: videohelp). I guess the final container will be .avi with an h.264 or HEVC video codec, but that might be overkill for the quality of footage; might be able to get by with a more lossy codec. I want to put the videos up on YouTube (hopefully for a wide audience); this means they’re going to undergo transcoding on their servers, so it might be better to stick with mpeg-4 and AAC audio, but I’ve never got the hang of fine-tuning bitrates and keyframe settings. I’d appreciate anyone uploading their presets or pointing me towards encoding presets that are optimized for the Hi8 to YouTube application.
So your turn, what do you users think about each step in the work flow, my purchase picks, and render settings? Thanks for any pointers in advance!
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4 Replies
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[Joel Benedict] “It also has a 4-conductor FireWire 400 cable as a bonus; I’m wary about using it as the transfer method because: first, it’s Sony’s proprietary i.link version, which might be less than compatible with any cable or card adapters to the larger FireWire 400 format, or even if it is physically compatible, might not be supported by any capture software; and second, because doing the transfer from analog to digital in-camera might introduce noise, and the capture quality might be inferior to what I would get from a separate DV cam pass-through.”
If you want to use DV for ingest, then you will have this analog to digital conversion (and any attendant artifact introduction) at some point. You may as well try this first.
I wouldn’t worry about the i.Link/FW400 thing — it should work fine for capture, although you may or may not have device control.
Your other option is to get an analog capture card card. Your cheapest option is probably the Blackmagic Intensity line.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
Thanks for the detailed reply and further equipment recommendation! The Blackmagicdesign Intensity Pro HDMI and Analog Editing Card PCIe version would be $170.99 if bought off Amazon in new condition, $127.53 if bought used off of eBay. The PCIe version has higher bandwidth than the USB 3.0 version (albeit less portable).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001CN9GEA/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1386127875&sr=8-1&keywords=Blackmagicdesign+Intensity+Pro+HDMI+and+Analog+Editing+Card&condition=new
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Blackmagic-Design-Intensity-Pro-HDMI-and-Analog-Editing-Card-/161166145149?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258640367dIt would be a good idea to buy it if I wanted to avoid something else I just thought of, which is the bandwidth cap of 4-conductor FireWire 400, but then again, the analog bandwidth cap of RCA stereo cables and S-video will be there regardless of the digital cap; FireWire probably has enough bandwidth to pass the signals through.
I’m probably going to buy the TRV320 regardless of the digital output–I have to have something to play the tapes in stereo after all. I have a DVD player with analog inputs to test that signal, but to test the FireWire quality, I’m going to have to gamble a whopping five bucks on a 4-conductor FireWire card ;). If the quality is inferior to the analog test (e.g. electronic noise, video artifacts or compression), the Intensity Pro is again worth of consideration. Plus, I can always resell the BINTSPRO (as it’s known in the second-hand underworld) after I’m done with the transfer job, or use it to capture vintage gaming console footage.
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[Joel Benedict] “The PCIe version has higher bandwidth than the USB 3.0 version (albeit less portable). “
Don’t worry about a bandwidth difference — either is sufficient for uncompressed SD.
[Joel Benedict] “It would be a good idea to buy it if I wanted to avoid something else I just thought of, which is the bandwidth cap of 4-conductor FireWire 400, but then again, the analog bandwidth cap of RCA stereo cables and S-video will be there regardless of the digital cap; FireWire probably has enough bandwidth to pass the signals through. “
Video over FireWire is DV [link] — digital video compressed to 25 Mb/s, using a 720×480 raster, 4:2:0 chroma sub-sampling (NTSC), and an intraframe discrete cosine transform scheme.
Contrast this with the Intensity, which can capture and save uncompressed video.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
I’ve always used the S-Video and RCA audio to digitize Hi8 because it is 4:2:2 video and holds up better when than using a DV converter that brings you into a 4:2:0 or 4:1:1 color space. Some graphics cards have a S-Video port but I use either a Matrox RTX, MX02 or if I want to filter out the interlaced artifacting, I use a Digital Rapid system to make the video better than the original Hi8. Then you can pick the level of compression and format that will give you better results than DV. Frequently I use a QT format or MPEG2 and sometime AVI depending on the scope of the project.
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