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Critique my mastering out of a DVC Pro HD project for PAL…
Hiya Cows
I’m about to finish a short doc for PAL Digibeta delivery. Have been cutting in DVC Pro HD 720/25 (shot P2 @ 25 to get more capacity from smallish cards).
Am also using some DV25 material in the show (archive) some of which is PAL, some of which has been transcoded from NTSC into DV25. I have allowed this material to be re-sized in the timeline rather than transcoding it into new DVC Pro HD clips. (Did a test, doesn’t seem to make much difference). Also some stills, dropped straight into the time line.
I use a Matrox MXO for monitoring, and while I could hire a digi deck and output myself from the MXO, I am going to output at a larger post house which has a hardware broadcast legalizer, which they can stick in between their Mac Pro w Blackmagic Decklink Extreme and the deck (via SDI).
So here’s what I plan:
(i) grade via Matrox MXO on ACD 23″, using the Matrox DVC Pro HD YUV setting, also monitoring on a small regular tube TV via composite out.
(ii) ARC my DV25 footage to 16:9 as necessary
(iii) transcode the whole thing to a self-contained PAL Quicktime (8 bit – do I need the extra 2?) This should translate colour spaces and the grade effectively, right? Tests seem to indicate yes, but any gotchas I should look out for?
(iv) create the end credits in the PAL version to avoid stuttering / interlacing issues
(v) Look for strobing / interlacing issues on this new PAL version (eg I have a map from the 1960s whose dot screen printing does not strobe at DVC Pro HD res, but which does strobe in PAL – whether downconverted via software or hardware, I’ve checked. Flicker filter takes care of it).
(vi) Run the FCP broadcast safe filter on it on a moderate setting, and have a run through with the warning bars on (it’s going through the legalizer but why not, if there is any issue it gives me more control in how I deal with it, right?)
What do we think? I know I could do the down-conversion in hardware at the larger post house with their Blackmagic setup, but I figure the slightly longer route with the software down-conversion will give me more control – given that I am going from progressive source to interlaced delivery format for example…
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7 Replies
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[Robert Neil] “What do we think? I know I could do the down-conversion in hardware at the larger post house with their Blackmagic setup, but I figure the slightly longer route with the software down-conversion will give me more control – given that I am going from progressive source to interlaced delivery format for example…”
Hardware downconversion is always cleaner in my experience than any other FCP option, though I only run the AJA boards here in our shop. We don’t use anything from BlackMagic.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
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To me your workflow looks really good and i´m amazed how carefully you think it!
And Walter, it seems like you have something seriously against all BM products?!?! -
[Petteri Evilampi] “And Walter, it seems like you have something seriously against all BM products?!?!”
I just said we don’t use them. Tested them against AJA projects and AJA has better products in my opinion. More realtime features, better quality, etc… You can go back through my posts over the years as I’ve discussed this in the past.
Both products work for folks, I just use and recommend AJA.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
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I’m with Walter. You will get a cleaner downconvert if you let the hardware do the heavy lifting for you. Just downconvert from 720 to 525 in the hardware as you output to tape. This is typically how we deliver all our 720 shows. We downcovert to 525 Digi and also crossconvert to 1080 at the same time. This is all done in realtime in the Kona 3 card.
As for adding the BS filter and outputting through a legalizer, I would probably just use the legalizer. He have the Harris SD/HD box and it works great. I’m not sure I would clamp it with the filter and have the box add clamping in addition to that. The box has a very smooth roll-off and you’ll get great results.Do the BM cards do 720 to SD downconvert in hardware, or is it done in software? Like Walter, we only use AJA cards, so I’m not sure about the answer.
Michael Alberts
Ambidextrous Productions, Inc.
http://www.ambidextrous.net -
[Michael Alberts] “Do the BM cards do 720 to SD downconvert in hardware, or is it done in software? Like Walter, we only use AJA cards, so I’m not sure about the answer.”
no, unfortunately they don’t and I don’t see the huge deal why they can’t (1080 downconverts great in hardware). the software downconversion is 100% useless for anything.
I won’t be buying black magic products again.
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Thanks for the responses. I have no reason to be partisan re: BM/Kona, I have access to a couple of places and both brands. I happen to have tested in the BM establishment and the footage looked rock solid via SDI, whether it was a DVCPro HD Quicktime being downconverted or a PAL Quicktime playing through the digi deck natively.
In any case, maybe one issue is easily resolved:
Assuming I play out from the DVC Pro HD timeline rather than downconverting in Compressor/FCP, EITHER via Blackmagic/Kona or Matrox MXO, how do I make my credits behave like smooth PAL credits and not jerky progressive DVC Pro HD ones? I have tested making credits in the DVC Pro HD timeline and downconverting to PAL, and they remain v jerky. When I start a PAL timeline with footage which has already been downconverted and create the credit crawl in there they are silky smooth…
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[Robert Neil] “how do I make my credits behave like smooth PAL credits and not jerky progressive DVC Pro HD ones? I”
Jerky progressive credits? Have not seen this, if anything the credits in 720p are much smoother than the interlaced version. Though even in DVCPro HD 1080i/50 and 1080i/60 our credit rolls are incredibly smooth.
Sounds like some sort of frame rate issue.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
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