Converting 24P over 60 to 24PN

[Jim Blokland]

Hi Gary:

Many thanks for your knowledgeable response. Just to clarify, I did not see any option in the FRC plugin for 24fps…on my machine the only available choices were ‘23.98, 29.97 & 59.94’ (if I remember correctly…). Also, I did select all the checkboxes for making self-contained file, importing into FCP etc.

All I want to do is get the 24P out of these larger files. This is definitely not working. Any other advice is welcome. (at this point, seems that going to 5.1.1 may be the best/only solution) Gary, can you confirm that it is possible to extrude the 24P frames out of the 60 upon import in 5.1.1?

Thanks in advance.

Best, JIM.

OSX.4.3
Dual 2.7 G5
3.5 GB RAM
Radeon X800 XT
Kona 2 / K-Box
Seritek 1.2 TB RAID
AVID XPRESS PRO/MOJO

[Gary Adcock]

[Jim Blokland] “on my machine the only available choices were ‘23.98, 29.97 & 59.94’ (if I remember correctly…)”

Yeah that was my problem, I was trying to do it from memory -and I was working in CT at the time hence the confusion.
NO there is not a 24.0 option ( you are correct)

I need to try the import later today- I only work in the PN modes so I need to shoot something to test this.
I will report later today.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL

[Urban Rhino]

Does anyone know of a workflow to bring the timcode back into a 23.98 or 29.97 base after frame removal. As an editor as well as a shooter I get very concerned when I start seeing frame patterns that are not completely linear, jump numbers and go beyond the 29.97 mark. I know I can adjust the timecode values manually, but I’d love to do this in a way where it happened upon import or in a batch process. This would also make it easier to archive downcoverted material to tape. Thanks

[Jim Blokland]

Thanks Gary, that would be great.

Best, JIM.

OSX.4.3
Dual 2.7 G5
3.5 GB RAM
Radeon X800 XT
Kona 2 / K-Box
Seritek 1.2 TB RAID
AVID XPRESS PRO/MOJO

[Gary Adcock]

[Urban Rhino] “Does anyone know of a workflow to bring the timcode back into a 23.98 or 29.97 base after frame removal.”

No if you remove frames the TC reflects the frame removal. you could go thru the process of setting that up as an AUX timecode track.
IMHO this is a really bad idea- by changing the TC readout you are affecting the entire post workflow and I think that it would seriously affect the process should the content need to be handled by someone other than you.

[Urban Rhino] “I get very concerned when I start seeing frame patterns that are not completely linear, jump numbers and go beyond the 29.97 mark. “

Then you are not used to working in 24p– the TC reflects the proper frame count – by changing the count you are creating a possible inability to recomform for HD / film delivery. HVX 200 content recorded at 60p reflects a 60 frame time base. – shooting at 30p the timebase is 29.97 and shooting at 24pN reflects a 24 frame timebase.

The solution is to choose the proper acquisition format in the camera for the timebase you need to work in.

remember that how and what you acquire is not necessarily the same format you deliver in.

ga

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL

[Gary Adcock]

jim

in the 720p mode – using the FRC with all 3 of the boxes checked- I have not been able to get the footage to replicate your problem of a stutter or judder –
I am going to assume that the odd look of the content is not a result a too quick a pan when working in 24p.

I do know that failing to check the “remove redundant frames’ can cause issues with the content – and it will give you 24p content that may look odd.

IN 1080 24pA you have to have the most current version of FCP to properly handle the frame removal from the 1080 video stream (and NO just checking the dialog box in the P2 import window does not work)

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL

[Jim Blokland]

Gary:

Many thanks. Not to belabour the point but…the test shot I used the FRC on was a static shot of a lady sitting in a chair playing the cello. It was shot at 720P24 (over 60). If I step through the shot frame by frame, I see a frame duplicated every 5th frame (ie. FR 1-1, FR 2-2, FR 3-3, FR 4-4, FR 5-4) and the duration of the shot (originally 1:36:00) comes out at 2:00:00. The original file’s properties info box says the clip is DVCPRO HD 720P60 with a 59.94 T/C Rate and a data rate of 14.1MB/sec.

I’m going to try running the FRC on a few other clips and see if there is any improvement. I’ll post back once I’ve done that.

This sure proves that testing in advance of shooting is a must with new workflows.

Best, JIM.

OSX.4.3
Dual 2.7 G5
3.5 GB RAM
Radeon X800 XT
Kona 2 / K-Box
Seritek 1.2 TB RAID
AVID XPRESS PRO/MOJO

[Gary Adcock]

[Jim Blokland] “It was shot at 720P24 (over 60). If I step through the shot frame by frame, I see a frame duplicated every 5th frame (ie. FR 1-1, FR 2-2, FR 3-3, FR 4-4, FR 5-4) and the duration of the shot (originally 1:36:00) comes out at 2:00:00.”

Jim
this is the result I got when I set the FRC to be 29.97 and not 23.98 and worked from sub clip.
the look you are getting looks and plays like 24pA (which is NOT available w/ progressive content)

One comment – Do Not Process a subclip. – you have to start on the 0 or 5 frame and if you sdo not know what those look like it causes errant processing of the frame removal.

gary

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL

[Jim Blokland]

Gary:

Thanks again. I am not using a subclip, but rather an imported clip from the CONTENTS/LASTCLIP.TXT files/folders I copied to my backup drive from the P2 Store. I’m pretty sure I’ve selected 23.98 (as a matter of fact, that’s the default that comes up when I select the FRC). Just for a giggle, I even selected 29.97 and, of course, that didn’t work.

If I seem to be getting 24PA framerates, I wonder if I could run the Remove Advanced Pulldown on the clip after the FRC? Might give it a try and post back.

Thanks, JIM.

OSX.4.3
Dual 2.7 G5
3.5 GB RAM
Radeon X800 XT
Kona 2 / K-Box
Seritek 1.2 TB RAID
AVID XPRESS PRO/MOJO

[Gary Adcock]

[Jim Blokland] “Thanks again. I am not using a subclip, but rather an imported clip from the CONTENTS/LASTCLIP.TXT files/folders”

Jim
this sounds as if you are processing them without importing them into FCP- and I know that you cannot do that.

[Jim Blokland] “If I seem to be getting 24PA framerates, I wonder if I could run the Remove Advanced Pulldown on the clip after the FRC? Might give it a try and post back.”

it is not possible to have advanced pulldown with progressive content. And FCP’s advanced pulldown removal does not handle HD content well you still need to use CT for the 1080 24pA processing.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Chicago, IL