Converting 23.98 timeline to 29.97 output

[Seawild]

Hello!

Are you using a external monitor to look at it?

Chris

[Outis]

Yes, he uses a monitor in his mixing room and that’s why he wants a tape in 29.97 to sync to. Any suggestions?

Thank you.

[Seawild]

Are YOU (the editor) monitoring the output of your FCP timeline to an external monitor?

[Outis]

I guess I am getting confused because that is not truly the problem. Yes, I have a monitor hooked up to my fcp system. But the problem is coming from the timeline where I editied in 24fps and from which I create the OMF. He is then trying to lock the sync to a tape, but that runs 29.97fps so the two don’t match.

My question is, is there a way to create a 29.97 EDL from the timeline? Or, is there a way to create a 24fps file that he can sync to — and has anyone used this system with their sound mixers (he led me to believe that it was not possible and not professional).

Bottom line, do I have to convert the entire project back into 29.97 and from there output the OMF and the tape for him to sync to?

Thank you.

[Steven Gonzales]

To be sure of being in sync, you need to give a little more info.

Was the Film – transferred to video at 29.97 — brought in to edit at 24fps or 23.98 fps?

How was the sound brought in to the edit system? Was it put in sync during transfer and taken off the sync videotape, or were picture and sound put in sync in the edit system? If on the edit system, were then put in sync at 24 (or 23.98) or at 29.97 before reverse telecine back to 24(23.98)?

You have two issue: you have to get the sound to the sound editor’s digital workstation at the right rate, and you have to create a picture he can edit against at that chosen rate.

[Outis]

The film was telecine and the sound locked onto a DVCam tape at 29.97. Then I removed the pulldown and converted both the picture and sound (they were locked) to 23.98 using Cinema Tools. So now I have an offline timeline with sound and picture running at 23.98. I would love to keep it this way and have the sound mixer work in 23.98.

But, he says he needs a tape to watch the picture to. So now I have to get the picture and the sound from my timeline BACK into 29.97. Then I can create an OMF and a tape that match in 29.97. What is the best way to accomplish this? OR, better yet, how can I give the OMF and video to the sound mixer in 23.98 so they match and not convert the video back at all?

How do shows that shoot 23.98 HD but record sound at 29.97 (as is recommended) do it? I think they don’t convert the picture to 29.97 because that would defeat the purpose. There must be some way of handling the sound. Anyone with experience with this out there?

thank you.

[Steven Gonzales]

Sound against 23.98 and 29.97 are the same. When film (24 fps) and sound (whatever sample rate) are put in sync at telecine, they are both slowed down from the speed they were recorded at, but by the same amount so they still match.

If you edit at straight 24, and you bring the sound right in to the edit system to sync, you also don’t have to change the speed of anything, because then both would still be at their original, slightly faster speed.

If you bring film transferred to video in, and reverse telecine it to 23.98, and you bring the sound straight in to sync in your edit system, then you would have to slow the sound down to match the picture (since that was slowed when put on videotape).

Anyway…

So you just need to get a videotape at 29.97. One way to do this is to tape the same signal that went to your NTSC video monitor. When final cut plays 23.98 (really 23.976) out to 29.97, it duplicates field here and there to get it to sync to the monitor. This won’t be the best picture, and a good eye will see a stutter every so often, but overall it will stay in sync.

Another choice is to copy the clips (select all) in your 23.98 sequence, and paste them into a 29.97 sequence, and then render the whole thing in Final Cut.

The cleanest choice I know of involves using After Effects. You export a movie at 23.98 from final cut. Then you bring that in After Effects (creating the appopriate size composition) and add the comp to the render queue. Then set the render setting to create 3:2 pulldown, with a frame rate of 29.97. You should see a “sampling at 23.98” message in the render settings (I last did this in AE 5.5, so it might be different now).

Then you can play the new 29.97 quicktime out to tape. If all goes well, this tape should sync with the OMF.

This is easier to check if you have sync pops on all tracks both at the beginning (2 seconds before first frame of action) and end (some agreed amount of time after last frame of action).

[Dom Silverio]

Output a QT movie. Use Cinematools to conform the QT as 29.97.

[Gary Adcock]

[taliaraine] “how do shows that shoot 23.98 HD but record sound at 29.97 (as is recommended) do it? I think they don’t convert the picture to 29.97 because that would defeat the purpose. There must be some way of handling the sound. Anyone with experience with this out there?”

First off they use audio post facilities that are equipped to handle 23.98 materials. Remember that audio does NOT support frame rates, Audio is recorded as feet and inches or minutes and seconds.

A 30 minute show is still 30 minutes without regard to whether it was mastered at 23.98 or 29.97. The audio guy is not giving you video back, only audio master files (as Aff’s most likely)

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

[Steven Gonzales]

Conform in Cinema Tools simply changes the frame rate on the quicktime file. If you conform a 23.98 quicktime to 29.97, it will be at the higher frame rate, but will be sped up by 20%.