Contemplating a switch from Mac to PC?

[Tim Kolb]

Several players are worth mentioning in this regard…

(…and HP was contemplating departing from the consumer PC market…not the professional market.)

In my opinion, if you are willing to look at spending a similar amount on a Windows workstation that you would on a Mac, you can achieve similar performance and dependability.

(What you think about OS vs OS is a personal thing and I’m not going there until we clear up all the political and religious issues that we can’t agree on… 🙂 )

If you’ve actually handled a professional HP Z800 workstation, you know what a machine should be built like…tool-less install/removal of components, very intelligent layout…a ton of power supply. Their are several capable resellers for these systems, but the one I’m experienced with is DV 411.

BOXX systems is another player that should be in the conversation and their workmanship rivals HP’s Z series and often, they can implement new technology before the bigger players can. They build specialized platforms for the media production industry in several areas including effects, animation, and post, and their customer list is made up of extremely recognizable names… They’re solid and their support is exceptional and unwavering in the long haul. I’ve had several BOXX systems, and I have to say it gives you a good feeling to have that sort of backup.

I’ve heard positive feedback from users on several other system builders that I don’t have experience with myself…

ADK is certainly a reputable builder.

NEXT Computing builds heavy-lifter systems for portable use, or workstation configurations.

A new builder I’ve started to hear good feedback on is Puget Systems…their configuration list seems to indicate they’ve done some homework to come up with well-vetted configurations.

Keep in mind that you may not see the same base configurations between many of these vendors. They’ve all settled out certain motherboard/processor, etc combinations that they’ve been able to optimize and that they can confidently support. If you think you have some brand preference in motherboards, etc, many of these vendors will not build whatever you want, and just like Apple, that’s because they build what they’re confident with…

…and as a professional user-that’s what you want.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor

[Tom Daigon]

Tim, based on this quote for HP I think your interpretation of the impact on the Z800 is incorrect…

HP’s low-margin PC business has been the subject of separation rumors for months and HP shares have slumped this year amid investor concerns that the company is being overtaken by younger, nimbler Asian rivals.

Leo Apotheker, a former top executive of German business software giant SAP who took over as HP’s chief executive in November, said the moves were part of a “transformation to position HP for a new future.”

“The transformation starts today,” Apotheker told financial analysts.

Explaining the decision to sell or spin off the PC business within the next 12 to 18 months, the HP CEO said the weak economy was having an impact on PC sales but there is also a “clear secular movement in the consumer PC space.”

“Consumers are changing their use of the PC,” Apotheker said. “The tablet effect is real and sales of the TouchPad are not meeting our expectations.”

“For our PC business to remain the world’s largest personal computing business it needs the flexibility and agility to make decisions best for its future direction,” he said.

The PC market has been flat amid an explosion of powerful smartphones and the arrival of hot-selling tablets such as the iPad.

I dont know about you, but I am leery about spending lots of money with a company in this bad fiscal shape and expressing this attitude toward their PC market (be it consumer or professional). Reminds me a bit to much of Crapple.

I know Boxx has a good reputation. But my first experience with their customer service was severely lacking. I was unable to speak to a technically savvy person and was told to make an appointment for tomorrow.

Talking to ADK was an enlightening and extremely pleasant experience. And they know their stuff when it comes to Adobe CS5 (premiere and After Effects especially). I really like that they have a strong presence on the Adobe forum and are very accessible. And they price themselves to be competitive with HP.

We each make our own choices and these are the factors that are shaping mine.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
Mac Pro 3,1
8 core
10.6.8
Nvidia Quadro 4000
24 gigs ram
Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid
Kona 3

[Tim Kolb]

Since IBM sold off their hardware business, they have become a monster business…so I suppose the model is there.

My experience with Boxx is different than yours by the sound of things…but your response to your experiences is understandable.

I suspect there will be more users looking at the same transition, so any and all experiences and options recounted here will hopefully be helpful for those looking for some insight.

…sort of the whole COW principle right there actually.

TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,

Adobe Certified Instructor

[Keith Moreau]

Tom, what are you thinking of getting? If Apple had a brand new mac pro today would you consider it?

[Tom Daigon]

Hi Keith. Easy question. Nope. There are lots of reports from folks with newer machines that they are having major issues with Adobe CS5, my NLE of choice. Computer geeks I respect have educated me as to why hyperthreading on the Mac is not as good on the PC. Ive lost any trust for Apple supporting the Pro market after the FCP XXX debacle.
I have called ADK who takes an active presence on the Adobe forum and have CS5 running in their shop.
Eric is well versed in what editors want and need. He took the time to listen then suggest a configuration for me. I will wait until after NAB, but Crapple will soon be a distant memory and a 30% performance boost is in my future.

ADK https://www.adkvideoediting.com/

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
Mac Pro 3,1
8 core
10.6.8
Nvidia Quadro 4000
24 gigs ram
Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid
Kona 3

[Keith Moreau]

Tom,

Thanks for the honest reply.

I am so entrenched in Apple stuff that it would be hard for me to switch. At the same time, if Apple doesn’t come out with a new Mac Pro soon (I hear it will be after the next ‘Xeons’ are available from Intel), I may have no choice but to switch, at least for Video editing, to Windows / PC. I have heard a lot about the ‘bad hyper threading’ on the Mac vs Windows. Maybe you could point me to a reputable source for this info, as mostly I’ve seen it on Premiere Pro related forums from PPro PC users but not a lot to back it up in the Mac / PC general development community. (I have a software development background as well.) Not that I don’t believe it, but I would like to see some proof of it, and not just that it might be hard for Adobe to make Premiere perform on the Mac as well because of their common code base. And even if it is not Apple, but Adobe, that doesn’t really matter, because if the software is faster on a Windows machine, that’s the way it is.

I have even thought about using VMWare Fusion on a Windows PC to run Lion and the Apple stuff I need, but when I need IRON I use the Windows PC, a total role reversal from what I do now. (Fusion to run necessary Windows Apps.)

And since you’re on the same Mac as me, if you get anything modern, I would suspect you’ll get way more than 30% boost, maybe more like 500%. Probably after NAB there will be better Multi-processing Intels out so you’ll get even more of a boost. It’s very, very tempting. By that time if Apple doesn’t have a new Mac Pro, I’m there with you.

[Chris Cea]

I too have had a positive experience with ADK. I actually bought my Mac Pro (based around FCP) from them a year ago. Eric (who Tom D mentioned) is a super nice guy and extremely knowledgeable. I had him on the phone for hours (sometimes after hours) before I pulled the trigger on my system. Even a year later, he is always quick to answer my emails.

Funny story… I can remember talking to Eric at ADK (13 months ago)and him telling me I should consider going the PC/Adobe Premiere route instead of the Apple/FCP route. I recall him saying that the future of FCP looked a little shaky and that Adobe was doing big things with Premiere. Looking back….the man was right. I should have listened and gotten the PC 🙂

Chris

[Tom Daigon]

The 30% boost idea is based on the purchased of the latest mobo and processor technology as communicated to me by Eric at ADK. They sold both Macs and PCs until recently. Since you are familiar with software technical details, I think a call to Eric might be a good source of information about hyperthreading and other questions you might have.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
Mac Pro 3,1
8 core
10.6.8
Nvidia Quadro 4000
24 gigs ram
Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid
Kona 3

[Keith Moreau]

Chris, would you be able to tell us what Mac Pro you have, the config, RAM, HD, graphics card, and why you are unhappy with what would be a pretty fast Mac using Premiere Pro CS 5 or 5.5?

It is very, very interesting and informative for me to try to get some real world info from Mac Premiere Pro users and why they are unhappy and contemplating, or have made up their minds, such as Tom, that Windows PC is the preferred platform for Premiere Pro.

While I see many complaints about PPro on this and the Adobe PPro forum from Mac users, I also see many more complaints from PC users complaining about similar problems. Even now it seems there are issues with Premiere Pro’s exporting of multiple audio tracks and compatibility with 3rd party I/O cards and broadcast monitoring.

My thought until now was the PPRo, like all the other NLEs (including FCP 7, FCP 10, Avid) are pushing the limits of computers and it’s easy to get into an unstable state with any platform. And sometimes what might happen, especially from the animus created by the FCP 10 debacle, that ‘the grass is greener’ syndrome might also kick in. In the end, it’s a tool but the ‘cost’ of switching to Windows PC is huge for me, I want to make the right decision when the time comes.

I also think it is informative to Adobe to see these types of discussions for them to base their commitment of resources. They have supposedly cashed in a bit from FCP switchers, but I’m not sure if those switchers are happy or not. There is still a great loyalty to the Apple / Mac ecosystem, like me it will be hard to get people to move over. Better to get PPRo to work equally as well on Mac as PC. I was a switcher pre FCP 10, so it wan’t a big deal, but I want more and more performance out of the native, real time PPro mercury engine.

Tom, thanks for your recommendations and information, I’ll follow up with ADK.

[Tom Daigon]

Keith, glad to help. Lets us know how things go.

Tom Daigon
Avid DS / PrP / After Effects Editor
http://www.hdshotsandcuts.com
Mac Pro 3,1
8 core
10.6.8
Nvidia Quadro 4000
24 gigs ram
Maxx Digital / Areca 8tb. raid
Kona 3