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Considering FC Studio Purchase & Need Some Info
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Hey John:
As it has already been pointed out, I’ve been doing my homework (As you have acknowledged) since about March now 🙂 I don’t want to rush into another NLE purchase too quickly. I did so with Avid for reasons I already explained earlier in this thread.Regarding the big render issue. I seriously question wether this would be so big for me ? Perhaps I would feel it more on an industrial video, where one needs lower thirds and title overlay much more. You already mentioned sports as another contract where you might get bit if you’re against a deadline. I work on a power laptop PC plugged into a docking station, so I’m used to waiting to render stuff out in Avid before it can be exported to DVD or to Squeeze for encoding.
Like you said, I really need to do my homework here. Frankly, who wouldn’t be willing to trade off a little time in rendering for what looks like a great set of color corecting and audio post finishing tools ! 🙂 I don’t know of any other DVD authoring package which allows DD AC3 5.1 from inside the authoring app. Avid’s application to create DVD titles is a total abortion in my opinion. Yes, it gets the job done, but that’s about all you can say. I don’t think you can get the professional quality resuts with Avid DVD unless you build custom splash screens in Photoshop and encode your audio to AC3 5.1 in a third party app and then import those assets. There’s alot of screwing around and it’s a very klunky workflow if you need AC3 5.1.
It makes sense if you throw a huge honking Mac Pro with eight cores and 4 + Gigs of Ram and a screaming nVidia GPU, and a big Raid 0 array at FCP, then you will get a much different level of performance than with an iMAC.
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I used to be a self proclaimed AVID snob. I would gladly tell people that if you wanted to cut your sister’s wedding or a birthday party, Final Cut is great, but I work on an AVID, why would I even want to look at FCP. I thought I was so clever.
Then it happened…I started messing around with FCP, it took a while cause it works quite a bit different than my beloved AVID. I got better with it, cut a few projects (broadcast on ABC affiliate in Dallas), and started to like it. Soon I was cutting only on FCP and I haven’t missed that other edit system at all.I eventually took the plunge, due to the inexpensive nature of FCP, and started my own freelance business using an iMac, then a MacBook Pro. I was able to complete several projects over the two or three years, but I quickly learned that as a professional, I wanted a much more beefier system. I now am running on a 2x3ghz quad-core xeon, Lacie RAID, panasonic lh1700 and AJA IOHD. I do mostly HD (dvcpro hd 720p, via P2 cards) and I love it.
I say this only to illustrate what has already been mentioned here…
the best iMac will work with relatively few troubles, but I would guess that you will
soon want to be pushing buttons on a Mac Pro with a third party I/O and storage faster than firewire 800.As far as the render issue goes…
I think way too much time and effort is given to this.
An experienced editor will develop a workflow that includes the needed render time.
I have to render stuff all the time, guess what….its ok!
It forces me to not look at a computer screen for several hours at a time.
It really has never been an issue for me, and I’ve been editing since the olden days of linear editing on a grass valley system (no rendering, but would you ever want to go back to that?).So my advice is to work with what you have until you can justify buying a macpro based edit system. I bought mine with a business loan, and it has payed for itself many times over with the added ummph that I got. Don’t listen to the AVID folks (I won’t call them snobs) talk about render time. That is just one of the things the AVID does better than FCP. They both are great edit systems. In my opinion, FCP has a better set of resources to complete the task of creating finished video projects.
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Hi Todd, good reply. I haven’t read all the responces to this post, so forgive me if this has been mentioned. I’ve worked on several systems and can say that there are only 2 things I miss on most of them that the AVID has. The trim window and marking on input. That’s about it. FCP trim window is close, seems a bit clunky though in comparison. The ability to drop markers on clips as they come in is the most missed for me. You should also consideer the market you’re in. Moving material between systems (if thats what you need to do alot) can be a lot easier and might justify continued use of AVID. I don’t see them going away, the film cutters love ’em. Everything else, you’ll get used to. And I agree with Todd on the render time. It’s probibly something you deal with already anyway. Build the time in. Just my observation.
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Thank you Todd for your post. I think I’m getting a much more qualified and ballanced opinion of some of the ins and outs of FCP versus Avid. Like on the official Avid user group, some FCP editors also have an Avid and work on either one or both as their needs of the job dictate. It is nice to get some straight talk,(You good American folk are also in election mode down there)if I may dare to use this phrase, on what has become a rather contentious point- Too contentious most likely.
I think we’re all kinda spoiled on the realtime function issue. Back in the day when I first opened shop in 1998, pretty much every editing application required some amount of rendering to be able to push out video to a VTR. I was very fortunate to get a hold of what was then bleeding edge technology, with the DPS hardware accelerated realtime boardset. You got two streams of realtime SD video with realtime transitions and one channel realtime keyed overlay of titles and lower thirds !
I can’t help but wonder how well FCP would run on the top iMAC 3.06 GHz nVidia machine with an AJA IO HD box hooked onto one of the FW 800 channels ? I would think the AJA box would do some of the heavy lifting. This IO HD device reminds me of a non $20K Avid Adrenaline, except the Adranaline worked well on a FW 400 MB connection and the AJA box gets to have twice the bandwidth.
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[Mark Job] “would think the AJA box would do some of the heavy lifting. “
IT won’t. All this box does is capture and output. Not sure if it takes on the image scaling like the Kona cards do (and the Mojo and Adrenaline DX), but it….like all the other capture cards…does not add any RT to effects, nor boost performance. All the Mojo and Adrenaline did was take on the scaling so that the machine was free to handle the RT better…just like the Kona cards do.
PLUS…this is where the iMac is limiting…you only have one firewire bus, even though you have multiple firewire ports. So once you connect the AJA, you cannot reliably capture to any drive…as the drive only connect via firewire and they can’t share the bus. USB is not reliable for capture drives either. If you had a Mac Pro, or a MacBook pro, then you have expansion slots that you can use for this.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
[Mark Job] “I would think the AJA box would do some of the heavy lifting. “
Nope, it’s an I/O device. The only “heavy lifting” it does is to encode ProRes on the box because the iMac processors would not be able to do this on their own (same with the MacBook Pro.
The Io HD does not assist the computer in any other way.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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OK thanks for the clarification on the AJA IO HD box Walter. I am now leaning towards some possible experimentation in the very near future with final cut pro. First, I will see about contacting Apple to find out if I could arrange an in suite hands on demo of the FC Studio product in my area (Montreal, Canada). I would like to be able to spernd 2 or even 3 days with an experienced FCP editor to see if I like it.
In my case, I’m as new to MAC computers as I am to FC Studio. I think my first purchase, will be an iMAC computer, and this will be only if I like what I see and hear and personally try in a FCP suite before I make any purchases. I know all but one editor on this thread has recommended to go straight for the MAC Pro all decked out to the max, but in my situation, I think an iMAC is the prudent move to make, if any at all. Of course I’ll go for the maxed out iMAC and not the entry level one with the 3.06 GHz Core 2 Duo CPU and the max 4 GB of DDR 2 800 MHz Ram and the 1 TB HDD and the 8800 nVidia 512 MB GPU. I already use FW 800 external raid 0 drives on my Avid and they are fine for HDV.
Everything is all tentative until I have more personal contact with the app. I thank all of you for giving me your valuable feedback and for educating me more on FCP. I will say this – I’m intriqued about FC Studio bigtime ! 🙂
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[Mark Job] ” First, I will see about contacting Apple to find out if I could arrange an in suite hands on demo of the FC Studio product in my area (Montreal, Canada). I would like to be able to spernd 2 or even 3 days with an experienced FCP editor to see if I like it. “
Contact a VAR (Value Added Reseller) in your area, not Apple. VAR’s generally have demo units and a network of end users you can contact. I work pretty much exclusively with one VAR here in Atlanta primarily because I can demo equipment when necessary and he always takes care of me after the sale.
I still wouldn’t go with an iMac, but that’s just me. We have 4 iMacs we use at the shop, but none of them are for editing.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
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Mark,
I don’t think you will get Apple to give you a personal demo, but a VAR in your area would be happy to. On your own time, get an Apple Certified Trainer to sit with you (not just an editor), as they will be able to answer your questions and show you things some self-taught editor would never know. Not cheap, but worth the money. Even better is to take an Apple Certified Class, like for 3 days or more.IMHO, it is short-sighted to run a professional video post operation on an iMac. If you only see doing HDV (a dying format) for the next 4 years, then go ahead. If you want a system that is flexible and will last you 3-5 years, then do yourself a favor and spend the extra money now.
I also come from an Avid background, BTW.
Kevin Monahan
http://www.fcpworld.com
Author – Motion Graphics and Effects in Final Cut Pro -
Hi Walter. Yes, we will be checking out who’s reselling, but the Apple head office in Canada might be able to direct me to the right one here in the greater Montreal area. Many folks are reselling Macs in town, but I think they don’t specialize in FC Studio suite demos. Ill make some calls this week and see what I can find out.
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