Conforming a DV 29.97 timeline to 23.98 HD

[Shane Ross]

Export an EDL….use Cinema Tools to convert the EDL from 30 fps to 24fps. Reimport that EDL into FCP.

Now, EDL being a very old format, there will be issues with plugins coming over, and speed changes (VERY bad about that), and still grabs. But, I did this and it worked.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Galen Summer]

Hey Shane, Thanks. Any tips on dealing with speed changes? I will probably just match up by eye, but if you have anything you’ve learned in this respect I’d love to hear it. What do you think would be a good way to bring over some reference to the SD material? I would love to be able to have a ref layer QT to see that things are still lining up. Obviously this would be 29.97 and I would need to convert. Is doing a Cinema Tools reverse telecine to a an export of my 29.97 sequence a good option? These are short pieces (:30 spots) so I am more concerned with accuracy than dealing with large chunks of media.

thx,

g

[Galen Summer]

I tried the EDL convert approach, but soon realized that the clip names for my 29.97 material do not match the clip names for my 23.98 material. For example, my 29.97 footage comes from clips that are whole camera rolls, while the 23.98 stuff is arriving as individual clips corresponding to different shots from the edits. For example, with my 29.97 material I have just one clip for roll 1 (TCR_1), while my 23.98 stuff may have TCR1_1,2,3, etc. Since I have no control over this part of the process (I receive footage on a drive that has been captured and clips named by someone else) I need another way to approach this. There is also burned in timecode on the DV footage. If I just copy and paste my clips from my 29.97 timeline into my new 23.98 timeline, what is the best way to match up and cut in the HD shots? Would it be better to export a QT of my 29.97 timeline, reverse telecine it, and then use that as a reference to conform my 23.98 sequence?

Sorry if this explanation has gotten confusing. I know I can fumble through this and get it done, as I have done that for a couple sequences already, but I am looking for the best way to approach this and learn something for the future as well.

thx,

g

[Shane Ross]

First, the QT reference movie. Export it self contained and leave it 29.97. Yes, you’ll drop it on a TOP layer of the ONLINE sequence, and it will ask to render…just don’t render. Use it as a guide and hit OPT-B to activate and de-activate it.

[gsummer1981] “I tried the EDL convert approach, but soon realized that the clip names for my 29.97 material do not match the clip names for my 23.98 material. For example, my 29.97 footage comes from clips that are whole camera rolls, while the 23.98 stuff is arriving as individual clips corresponding to different shots from the edits.”

OK…why to you already have the HD 23.98 stuff captured? You shouldn’t at this point. You should export the EDL, convert it, import it and THEN capture the HD footage. This way it captures only what is in your cut, and only the portions you use. There is NO WAY you can have this imported EDL sequence link up with footage that is already captured. FCP looks for clip names and durations. If all the HD footage was the same length as the offline clips…no, even then it wouldn’t work. Timebase is different. You need to recapture after you import the converted EDL.

HOW you do all this…I can’t say. Because I was the OFFLINE editor that supplied this stuff for the online guy to capture, when I was first starting out in FCP. I haven’t done it since.

[gsummer1981] “Since I have no control over this part of the process (I receive footage on a drive that has been captured and clips named by someone else) I need another way to approach this.”

Well, that wasn’t too bright…sorry to be blunt. That does against every post process on every non linear editor I have worked with. The only thing you can do now to my knowledge is look at the EDL or the TC of the clips in the timeline, locate that TC on the HD master captures, and manually replace every shot. Painstakenly time consuming, I know. But that is what happens when you don’t do things properly. Since the TC is burned in on the DV footage, that will make this a bit easier…but still slow.

Shane

Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net

[Sean Oneil]

I’ve been in this situation more times than I care to remember. I’m not a big fan of the EDL method. Try this.

FIRST STEP

Export a self-contained 29.97. Download this small, simple, yet extremely powerful app called JES Deinterlace:

https://www.xs4all.nl/%7Ejeschot/JES_Deinterlacer_v3.2.3.zip

This program is the one and only utility that can do a reverse telecine while detecting cadence breaks. And it’s screming fast.

Keep in mind it is not always flawless. If you have a lot of quick cuts, it won’t detect the cadence 100% of the time. But this is absolutely the first thing you want to try out because it’s so fast and there is a good chance it will take care of your problem completely.

SECOND STEP

If JES fixed most of your footage but it missed a few scenes, manually fix those scenes using Cinema tools reverse telecine. Then throw your JES clip on a 23.98 timeline, and use your new CT clips to “repair” the bad scenes.

THIRD STEP

If for whatever reason the above doesn’t work (no reason it shouldn’t) then there is away to re-capture without using an EDL. The jist of it is that you can reconnect your 29.97 clips to 23.98 media, and it will match up, provided you take the proper steps.

[Sean Oneil]

Sorry, I just realized your 29.97 footage is offline DV quality.

Set your deck to output 1080i 29.97. Batch recapture in full quality like you normally would. Then follow the steps I described.

[Sean Oneil]

And I’m not saying not to try Shane’s EDL method (which is more conventional). I’m just offering an alternative.

[Galen Summer]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Shane, I agree with you 100%. I did not create this workflow I am just trying to live with it. I appreciate your bluntness, but there is really nothing I can do about it. At the facility where I am working I do not have a deck (except for DV). We get all HD material captured for us at another place and then it is used for multiple purposes (at least for this project). That means that I can’t just have them upres my sequence. I have to work with chunks of footage that cover my sections as well as what other people need.

Anyway, I think Sean’s method is a little better than what I have been doing so I will try that. I am interested to check out that app. Does it do something different than what cinema tools does when it reverses telecine, or is it just better at it?

Thx,

g

[Sean Oneil]

I didn’t realize that you do not have the HD deck – that instead you just have the captured HD media which you need to re-connect.

That’s good news. All you have to do is this. Using Media Manager, create a duplicate of your sequence that has the DV clips OFFLINE.

Now, open up a new project and import all your HD media. This project only serves the purpose of changing the timebase of your HD media’s timecode. Use the “Modify -> Timecode” option and change all of your HD media to 30fps NDF or DF timecode (whatever your DV media is). This will alter the TC of your HD media, which is stored in the actual Quicktime files. If this makes you nervous, write down the original values. And you can always change it back to 24fps timecode if you need to. Close the project. No need to save it.

Open your project that has the offline DV clips. Now you have 23.98 HD media that’s using 29.97 timecode. Just reconnect it. You’ll probably see some warnings but that’s fine. It should match up properly. Only one issue will occur. Because you did not edit in “film safe”, some clips will be a frame too long or a frame too short. You’ll have to go through and manually trim these edit points.

Quick warning. I have personally done this quite a few times where the SD clips used NON-DROP timecode. And it worked every time. But I don’t know first had if it works with Drop-frame. It should work since FCP [supposedly] calculates the differences when you use “Modify -> Timecode”. But I haven’t tried it myself.