Composite Capture

[Tony]

I can’t recall if the LH has a frame synchronizer when dealing with footage which cannot be genlocked.

The IO has this feature.

With material such as vhs,8mm or other non genlockable playback devices it is necessary to run the footage thru a frame sync (also called a frame shaker) to stablize the video.

The problem has nothing to do with the LH’s genlock input instead it is your playback device which cannot be genlocked. You are expecting too much from a crappy consumer playback device when interfacing it with professional gear.

A workaround is to loop it thru your DSR-11 and take either the firewire or analog outputs from the DSR into the Kona LH.

Tony Salgado

[Robert Ober]

[tony salgado] “A workaround is to loop it thru your DSR-11 and take either the firewire or analog outputs from the DSR into the Kona LH.”

I did something like that by going through my AV receiver (Yamaha RX-V1600, which is fairly transparent) and capturing to the LH using y/c. The av sync is off which is apparently the Sheer codec and I emailed bitjazz about that.

I still believe that if the DSR-11 can handle the input from consumer machines, the LH should be able to as well. One would have to believe that the composite and y/c inputs would be primarily be used by consumer machines.

Thanks much for the reply.

Have some fun,
Robert A. Ober

[Tony]

Robert,

There are plenty of professional pieces of equipment which use composite or YC outputs. However these units may have a built in time base corrector or stabilizer which is essential.

Just because the LH has a composite input does not mean it will deal with unstable crappy video unless it has a frame sync built in to deal with such video.

Tony Salgado

[Bob Zelin]

Robert –
It sounds like the Kona LH may not be the product for you. You can use the DSR-11 to go directly into your MAC via Firewire. Your other sources that have composite video and unbalanced analog audio – well, you could just get
an inexpensive ADS composite to Firewire converter for under $300, and then buy an inexpensive Datavideo Frame Sync TBC for another $300 to lock up all these consumer sources.

The LH, as with other products from AJA, Blackmagic, Aurora, and AVID, are used for professional equipment, and designed to capture from professional sources, like Sony and Panasonic Broadcast VTR’s. Even if you are thinking about HD, for your applications (possibly HDV or Panasonic P2, etc), you can go firewire directly in. Users of hi end VTR’s like the Sony HD Cam and SR series, and the Panasonic AJ-HD1200, 1700, etc DVCProHD VTR’s are the ones that need AJA products.

Apple has made it easy for home videographers to use Firewire for products that you seem to be using.

bob Zelin

[Robert Ober]

[Bob Zelin] “Robert –
It sounds like the Kona LH may not be the product for you.

I disagree and I own it.

You can use the DSR-11 to go directly into your MAC via Firewire.

I have done that but I want better than DV.

Your other sources that have composite video and unbalanced analog audio – well, you could just get an inexpensive ADS composite to Firewire converter for under $300, and then buy an inexpensive Datavideo Frame Sync TBC for another $300 to lock up all these consumer sources.

I do have and plan to have HD analog sources. I think the DSR-11 will handle composite in as well, but again I want better than DV.

The LH, as with other products from AJA, Blackmagic, Aurora, and AVID, are used for professional equipment, and designed to capture from professional sources, like Sony and Panasonic Broadcast VTR’s.

So that excuses them from being able to sync composite even though far less expensive equipment can?

Even if you are thinking about HD, for your applications (possibly HDV or Panasonic P2, etc), you can go firewire directly in.

And the best they do is DVCPRO HD, correct?

Apple has made it easy for home videographers to use Firewire for products that you seem to be using.”

Again, firewire limits the quality and I want to capture analog HD.

Thanks for you thoughts,
Robert A. Ober

[Tony]

Robert,

With all due respect I think you missing Bob’s points completely.

In addition I don’t see why using the DSR-11 as a composite to digital converter would not suit your needs for converting composite 8mm video.
Unless you have a items such as a noise reducer and proc amp there seems little gain from spending time and effort on a higher end converter when the original source is such low quality.

Have you heard of the term GIGO “garbage in, garbage out” a higher end converter might make the garbage smell better but it will not magically convert it into image quality you might expect from digi beta.

AJA does make a product which has a frame sync built in for dealing with non genlockable devices. This feature has been incorporated into the IO product line.

Why it does not exist in the LH only AJA can answer this question.

I not sure how inputting composite sources has anything to do with analog HD which I believe you mean to imply HDV. HD generally implies higher end formats such as HDCAM, DVCPRO, HDCAM SR etc. It is best to be specific about what flavor of HD if you really are referring to HDV.

The problem with using the term HD generically only confuses what exactly you mean. The majority of professional HD applications use HDSDI not analog as this is mainly used for prosumer applications such as HDV due to cost savings.

If you want to use analog HD then use the component inputs on the LH to do so.

Tony Salgado

[Robert Ober]

[tony salgado] “With all due respect I think you missing Bob’s points completely.”

I understand his point. I want better than DV capture (even on lackluster sources, I like to get the best capture I can afford to as to not degrade the image further.).

[tony salgado] “Have you heard of the term GIGO “garbage in, garbage out” a higher end converter might make the garbage smell better but it will not magically convert it into image quality you might expect from digi beta.”

Yep, I am an IT consultant and HAM so I understand.

[tony salgado] “I not sure how inputting composite sources has anything to do with analog HD which I believe you mean to imply HDV. HD generally implies higher end formats such as HDCAM, DVCPRO, HDCAM SR etc. It is best to be specific about what flavor of HD if you really are referring to HDV.”

/smart aleck on

If I meant HDV, I would have said HDV.

/smart aleck off

I am not sure what the confusion is. I said I have done some HD analog captures(from my Dish 942 for my own use) and plan to do more. In addition to that, I am now capturing Hi8 and VHS home movies for a client and putting them on DVD. This latter job is where my sync problems started.

I am in the process of ordering a TBC-1000 as Bob mentioned. With this and the LH, I can offer folks higher quality than what they may get elsewhere.

[tony salgado] ” It is best to be specific about what flavor of HD if you really are referring to HDV.”

Absolutely! I even posted in Apple’s FCP forum that we should all agree not to say HD when meaning HDV. I will not be able to justify one soon, but the XLH1 can output true HD via SDI and bypass the tape.

Thanks for the help. You folks expertise and experience are very much appreciated.

Take care,
Robert A.Ober

[Bob Zelin]

Robert –
I mean no offense here, but we all deal with “expensive equipment” that becomes obsolete, and better cheaper products come out. Hi 8 is dead – any prosumer DV Camera will deliver superior performance to it. If you simply do DV from your DSR-11 into your FCP system (no capture card), it will give you a better image than if you upconvert your Hi 8 to HD, and do a 10 bit uncompressed HD capture on an Apple XServe RAID. You see DV (DV25) on TV news stations, VH-1, MTV, and reality shows all day long. If its good enough for them – it’s good enough for “dad with child”.

I have not seen the Canon XL-H1, but there are a slew of wonderful cameras out, and coming out. There are people out here with $50,000 Betacam cameras that are being outperformed by $6000 modern cameras. Your Hi 8 camera is over. By adding frame syncs’, etc. to it, will not improve it’s quality.

I deal with the most expensive gear in the world every day, but at home, I watch a $399 32″ Panasonic CRT TV set that I got from Best Buy. I appreciate the fact that you want to capture HD from your cable box, but I
can’t relate to your situation, relating to a professional that has to earn a living with this equipment. There are plenty of pros doing network and cable shows, with HDV.

Bob Zelin