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Commercial advantages
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[Bill Davis] “But while I agree that Adobe has excellent integration within the users workflow – I’d be interested on how you see their integration outside of the “in-suite” content creation setting.”
I guess it depends on what content you’re creating. Different CS applications can exchange files and formats with different outside applications. This is why AE (for instance) can be used as the hub of a very VFX/Mograph centric workflow (because it can open Cinema 4D or Maya projects), or as the backend to a PPro edit destined for finishing somewhere else (Avid, FCP, DaVinci, et.). The Adobe Suite isn’t exactly an island.
[Bill Davis] “What tools does it have for built in publishing and connectivity?”
For publishing, Adobe Media Encoder, for connectivity, XML.
[Bill Davis] “Honestly asking – I’m not familiar with the Adobe line nearly as much as I am with the X approach – which leaves it’s “masters” dynamically connected to not only the editing suite – but to the Publish area as well.
Is Premier still following the – make it over here – then export it as a disconnected file over there – then if you need another one, repeat process – or are they migrating towards dynamic files that remain persistently connected to the editorial suite and just publish the current state as needed – the process that I see X as being built around?”
I’m not sure I understand the statement. Which encoders leave media dynamically connected to pushlishing systems? Can you give an example?
Shawn
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[Shawn Miller] “I’m not sure I understand the statement. Which encoders leave media dynamically connected to pushlishing systems? Can you give an example?”
Well, in X – every thing in the Project library is dynamically connected to the Storyline that it’s a reflection of. The Share menu lets you express it out to the net via Vimeo, YouTube or to your own in-house server.
As you make changes in the Storyline, those are expressed instantly to the repository in the Project Library. If you want to maintain a version, you just duplicate the project. This allows for pretty agile versioning. To switch from Verson A to Version B, you just share out the new one.
It’s not so much connection to “publishing systems” as much as it’s that the entire program being designed to export directly to a export stream, rather than exclusively to the desktop as a standalone file – and having built- in tools to enable that (keyword attachment, etc) right inside the program.
Seems like one of the primary changes between 7 and X was that 7 was designed to create a “disconnected master” (what was what media used to nearly exclusively be) while X is designed to create a “editable stream” and maintain that inside the software for future manipulation and re-deployment.
I think it’s a pretty profound change in thinking. Of course, it requires circumstances of use that can benefit from it. For instance if you’re cutting a piece for today’s 7pm news, it’s not a very big deal. But if you’re publishing a series of virtual catalog pages with embedded video that includes something like pricing, for example – it’s a VERY powerful new approach that gives you much more dynamic access to content change over time.
So I’m trying to see how the other teams are thinking about this new kind of “connected world” production reality.
Nothing more than that.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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Yes Bernard, to the original question. My small facility is switching to PC and CS6. Same reasoning. I am building two new PCs for a much cheaper price than staying with Mac. Plus the price and availability of up to date NVIDIA graphics cards and lots of internal PCIe slots.
Laptops for my work are useless. I need two big screens, an output to a proper monitor via an I/O card, decent ergonomics with multi button mice and the ability to put the keyboard where I want it which is never right hard against a screen. I think the ergonomics and limited screen size of laptop editing is going to make my life harder. Already I get editors watching their grade on big screens marvelling at things missed in the edit like shot stability, small movement in frame on cuts. Already I do a lot more tidy ups for editors, rolling edit points to make up for these missed details.
The other driver for me is open workflows. I only do post grade & online plus sound post. My Fairlights are already PC so I am happy with WIN 7. Most editors who feed work on to me are either staying with FCP 7 or switching to CS6. I also have some AVID editors so I need a system where open interchange like AAF or OMF is integral to the program.
The other thing is da Vinci Resolve will be on the same PC again going with PC as I need the CUDA grunt and plenty of slots for Blackmagic card and potentially a Red Rocket.
The Mac will remain in the system for legacy work and my wife will use it for her iTunes/ iPad interface and retire her old laptop.
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[Bill Davis] “Well, in X – every thing in the Project library is dynamically connected to the Storyline that it’s a reflection of. The Share menu lets you express it out to the net via Vimeo, YouTube or to your own in-house server.
As you make changes in the Storyline, those are expressed instantly to the repository in the Project Library. If you want to maintain a version, you just duplicate the project. This allows for pretty agile versioning. To switch from Verson A to Version B, you just share out the new one.
It’s not so much connection to “publishing systems” as much as it’s that the entire program being designed to export directly to a export stream, rather than exclusively to the desktop as a standalone file – and having built- in tools to enable that (keyword attachment, etc) right inside the program.”
So, it sounds like you’re describing an automatic encoding system that lets you programmatically render files out to specific locations in whatever format may be needed. Please correct me if I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying.
Adobe’s approach to that functionality is via watch folders. Just set up a file location in Adobe Media Encoder and whatever you place at that location gets encoded to whatever format(s) and destination you specify.
Shawn
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If I understand your example Bill, all FCPX is doing is exporting a file directly to an off site storage like Vimeo without leaving a local copy.
I need the local copy which is part of my deliverables to the client and having to open and close projects to access versions seems increasingly unconnected compared to FCP7 in my typical workflow of having to copy paste between two or three final versions of a graded, titled timeline. If I can’t have at least three or four sequences open at once, I really can’t use that software.
What Adobe are doing with Adobe Anywhere is in my mind a fantastic addition to collaborative, open and truly connected workflows and is one of many reasons why I am switching from FCP7 to CS6. FCP X may be heading in that direction but I need to know now.
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[Shawn Miller] “So, it sounds like you’re describing an automatic encoding system that lets you programmatically render files out to specific locations in whatever format may be needed. Please correct me if I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying.”
Pretty close. Inside the software, for example, you can bake in your Vimeo or YouTube account settings. From within the software, you can then simply “print” your video to that account with nothing more than a stop (inside the software) to append search tags.
it makes “publish to my web accessible video portal” pretty much a single click operation.
Right now the auto-publish is limited to YouTube, Vimeo and CNN iReport – but clearly the design goal was to enable “publish out to services from within the app” as a software feature.
[Shawn Miller] “Adobe’s approach to that functionality is via watch folders. Just set up a file location in Adobe Media Encoder and whatever you place at that location gets encoded to whatever format(s) and destination you specify.
“OK, I think I understand. You Export your Master to that folder, then it publishes via the other program. Does the Master file remain connected to the editorial functions ala X and Share? Or is that master disconnected from further revision?
Thanks for helping me understand this, BTW.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[Bill Davis] “Inside the software, for example, you can bake in your Vimeo or YouTube account settings. From within the software, you can then simply “print” your video to that account with nothing more than a stop (inside the software) to append search tags. “
[Bill Davis] “Does the Master file remain connected to the editorial functions ala X and Share? Or is that master disconnected from further revision?”
Wait, so are you saying that once you “publish” a video to YouTube in FCPX, you can update the video in FCPX, then re-publish the updated video back to its YouTube page and it will replace the old video but keep the view count and all the existing comments? AFAIK, replacing video is possible within Vimeo, but it’s never been possible with YouTube. If FCPX enables this, that feature alone would be worth the price.
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David Lawrence
art~media~design~research
propaganda.com
publicmattersgroup.com
facebook.com/dlawrence
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[Michael Gissing] “If I understand your example Bill, all FCPX is doing is exporting a file directly to an off site storage like Vimeo without leaving a local copy.
“It’s one built-in option among others. You can also “Share” to the desktop as you like – which is pretty much what Export did in Legacy – cut a file off “as is” from the editorial system permanently.
The difference between Legacy and X is that in X, all your masters typically remain dynamically live and accessible all the time. You don’t have to close a project in order to open another one. They’re all accessible via the project library.
[Michael Gissing] “I need the local copy which is part of my deliverables to the client and having to open and close projects to access versions seems increasingly unconnected compared to FCP7 in my typical workflow of having to copy paste between two or three final versions of a graded, titled timeline. If I can’t have at least three or four sequences open at once, I really can’t use that software. “
I think you might be misunderstanding the concept of “Projects” in X – verses “Sequences” in legacy.
Since Legacy couldn’t open more than one project at a time, the only construct was to work in Sequences within a Single Project. With X, that’s kinda disappeared. Sequences are no longer important as a workspace construct having been replaced by the database in the Event Browser combined with the Project Library.
Opening a Legacy Project to access it’s content is kinda GONE in X. All your Projects are essentially available all the time via the Project Library and so it’s trivial to grab content from one and past it into another.
Again, this is mostly a change of language and design ideas. Not better or worse, just different – and until someone learns the different approach, it’s understandably hard to see why there might be advantages to the new way that outweigh the old.
Your “copy paste between two or three final versions of a graded, titled timeline. Is truly trivial under X. Take one graded and titled Project and Duplicate it three times. Change what you want about the clones. Copy and past from or to them at will. Then Share from each. Done.
Just like your “sequences” in Legacy, they’ll ALL be there ready for you to re-work in the event browser next time you come back to refine them – but SO WILL all your other work. So if you remember a title you did on a DIFFERENT project a month ago, you con’t have to shut down and load the old project as in Legacy – you just access the different one from the event browser, cut and paste and keep working in X.
[Michael Gissing] “What Adobe are doing with Adobe Anywhere is in my mind a fantastic addition to collaborative, open and truly connected workflows”
I’d very much like to understand this. What is this “truly connected workflow?” Is it connected inside the suite to other parts of the same suite? Or is it a software design constructed to connect FROM within the suite TO the larger outside world?
It has seemed to me that this is one of the things that X has opened up in my thinking. I think of my edits less as crafting “an edit” that begins and ends in the software – and instead I’m thinking more and more of creating persistent content that will adapt and change as necessary and which I’ll refine and deploy and re-refine and re-deploy as necessary.
There will always be a market for videos as “a thing” that’s done and that’s it. I’m just imagining that there are other extremely video friendly concepts out there where the ability to have the video remain connected to the content creation, deployment and management system might be a major advantage.
That’s why I’m interested in what the other NLE manufacturers are doing in this area.
Nothing more.
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[David Lawrence] “If FCPX enables this, that feature alone would be worth the price.”
Sadly I don’t know. Because of the original terms of service precluding commercial work on YouTube when we were deploying our client systems, we went with Vimeo Pro accounts for all of them – and I don’t have any YouTube streams going.
Anyone else know about this?
“Before speaking out ask yourself whether your words are true, whether they are respectful and whether they are needed in our civil discussions.”-Justice O’Connor
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[Bill Davis] “Since Legacy couldn’t open more than one project at a time”
You can have as many projects open in Legacy as you want, cutting pasting and copying between them.
Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
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nothin’ attached to nothin’
“Deciding the spine is the process of editing” F. Bieberkopf
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