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Combining DigiBeta and P2 with an LHe: Do I need a Kona 3?
(Since this question combines Final Cut, Kona hardware and P2 media, I will cross post it at the respetive forums)
Hi All-
I work at a place where we have exclusively been SD ever since inception, and have a very large archive on either BetaSP or Digibeta. However, just like a majority of people in the industry, we are making our (cautious) step into the realm of HD, and we need a way of combining the SD archives with the new HD footage
Currently we capture all of our footage through the Digibeta deck, SDI in through a Kona LHe card and into Final Cut 6.0.1 (I’ve been in between projects and haven’t had the time to do any updates). Recently though, we have been shooting some of our footage on P2, and will more than likely continue to do so. What we need is a way to combine the two formats, and until we can display the footage in HD, lay the entire project off to a DigiBeta master.
What is the best way to do this? In running tests, I am able to use the LHe to downconvert the P2 media to a 525 29.97 signal, but since the timeline in Final Cut is DVCProHD, if I try to bring in any Beta or DigiBeta footage, it looks wonky.
Is there any flexibility to ingest the P2 media as a different codec? Or possibly drop it into a different timeline that can incorporate both formats? I have tried putting the P2 footage in a 525 ProRes 29.97 timeline, but even after rendering, it doesn’t look as good as the previous method. But at least that way, I can bring in the legacy formats and have them all work together…
After researching on the forums, it would seem as though another option would to go for a Kona 3 card and let that upconvert my Beta/Digi footage to a 720p signal (or whatever the P2 is shot at) so they can all play nicely with each other, even though eventually (for the time being) I will be downconverting the whole thing back to SD to lay off to a Digibeta master.
I am all ears to different ways of going about this, and any insight into the matter would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
-David Wulzen
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9 Replies
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Well, if you want to mix your P2 footage with SD, why not shoot SD? DVCPRO 50 would fit nicely with digibeta footage. And if you want things to be HD, and you want to upconvert your digibeta footage to HD, then you’ll need the Kona 3. all depends on your final master. Personally I’d shoot DVCPRO 50 on P2 if you need to mix with digibeta footage are delivering an SD master.
Shane
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You want to shoot HD for future use, but edit with and deliver to SD, right?
What about dropping all the HD footage into a sequence in timecode order – with the sequence timecode set to match the footage. Then do a realtime downconvert to Digibeta and you have a great quality SD master tape with TC that matches the original HD media. Archive the HD media for future use and capture the SD footage you desire back into FCP, along with whatever older SD elements you desire.
It sorta blows a lot of the benefits of the P2 workflow but it’s an answer.
On the other hand, if having analog inputs isn’t important and you’d like to work in full HD, then Kona 3 upconverting would be a much more elegant process.
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Video Photographer / Avid Editor / Final Cut Neophyte -
You nailed it right on the head: we do in fact want to shoot it in HD so whenever it is down the road we can display it in its true format, we have it available.
I’ve thought about the option of laying it out on a single timeline and downconverting it to DigiBeta. All of this footage is interviews, ranging from half an hour to 3 hours, so its a little time consuming to be recording out to tape when I have several interviews at a time.
Is there anyway to convert the P2 codec upon ingesting? Or for this particular scenario (with the Kona LHe and not 3) would it be wiser to shoot on a different HD format and do the downconversion when capturing? Is this even possible?
Thanks for your input!
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[David Wulzen] “Is there anyway to convert the P2 codec upon ingesting?”
Nope…all the import options give you full native resolution only. Which normally is a good thing. You can try to use Compressor to transcode it all to 8-bit uncompressed. Test it to see.
[David Wulzen] “would it be wiser to shoot on a different HD format and do the downconversion when capturing?”
Again, you don’t capture with this format, you “injest” or “transfer.” The camera has component outs, and I suppose you could capture via the Kona that way, but you won’t get timecode reference…a must to have.
Test transcoding. But given this situation, it would be better to downconver the HD to work wiht the SD footage.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog! -
[Shane Ross] Again, you don’t capture with this format, you “injest” or “transfer.” The camera has component outs, and I suppose you could capture via the Kona that way, but you won’t get timecode reference…a must to have.
I was meaning whether or not it would be wiser to shoot on a different HD format, like HDCam, XDCam, etc. and then upon capture, do a downconversion. Since we don’t have to rent any hardware with the P2, this is obviously not the first choice though.
[Shane Ross] given this situation, it would be better to downconver the HD to work wiht the SD footage.
Even though the downconversion process of dumping the footage to DigiBeta is not the preferable option, would you still suggest this over doing an DigiBeta upconversion (if say, we actually had a Kona 3)?
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I’d do like Shane said and try downconverting everything through Compressor – although you might want something like Raylight to streamline the process – I’m not sure if Compressor can access the MXF files directly. Actually, now that I think about it, I would prefer this workflow by a hefty margin if the quality is there.
If you prefer the Kona 3 uprez route and you have the gear/money to upgrade any other hardware, then I will say after working in HD on only a few projects I’d be totally happy never to touch SD again!
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Video Photographer / Avid Editor / Final Cut Neophyte -
If you are currently delivering SD, then it would be best to downconvert the HD to SD rather than upconvert the digi to HD, then downconvert it again.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD now for sale!
http://www.LFHD.net
Read my blog! -
sooo….I gave it a shot downconverting through Compressor. I don’t have Raylight, and unfortunately I didn’t have the time today to test whether or not Compressor can access MXF files directly, but I did have some already quicktime “wrappered” P2 media that I ingested through FCP.
With the minimal tests I did do, it did seem to give me an ok result. I couldn’t test it against DVCProHD footage downconverted through the Kona, but next week I will and let you know the comparison. It is kind of a pain to ingest through Final Cut, then through Compressor, but it’s less time than dumping the whole thing off to tape. Would having Raylight dramatically change things?
And Shane, you are right, it would make more sense to downconvert the HD first rather than doing it up and back down. This option would be in preparation to working in full HD somewhere down the line, and to give me the most flexibility possible since we are more than likely not going to be sticking to strictly DigiBeta and P2.
Thanks for both of your input. It’s greatly appreciated.
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[David Wulzen] “It is kind of a pain to ingest through Final Cut, then through Compressor, but it’s less time than dumping the whole thing off to tape. Would having Raylight dramatically change things?”
Raylight allows you to work with the P2 content via quicktime pointer files (like a reference movie). Instead of ingesting (duplicating/rewrapping) the P2 media into FCP first, you could drop the raylight quicktime files into any application and start working.
So you’d offload your cards, show Raylight the media, and then take the new quicktime files straight to Compressor, skipping ingest time and using half the disk space.
https://dvfilm.com/raylight/mac/index.htm
-Adam
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Video Photographer / Avid Editor / Final Cut Neophyte
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